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	<title>Comments on: Dealing with Apparent Contradictions: Part 14 &#8211; James Anderson&#8217;s Paradox in Christian Theology (Dale)</title>
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	<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397</link>
	<description>theories about the father, son, and holy spirit</description>
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		<title>By: trinities - Dealing with Apparent Contradictions: Part 17 - More Mysterious Interpretations - Nye&#8217;s Vine-Man (Dale)</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89233</link>
		<dc:creator>trinities - Dealing with Apparent Contradictions: Part 17 - More Mysterious Interpretations - Nye&#8217;s Vine-Man (Dale)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] anything, is wrong with the following passage, in which Nye lampoons Mysterian defenses? How might Anderson, for instance, reply? I am resolved to keep close to clear and express revelation: therefore our [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] anything, is wrong with the following passage, in which Nye lampoons Mysterian defenses? How might Anderson, for instance, reply? I am resolved to keep close to clear and express revelation: therefore our [...]</p>
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		<title>By: trinities - Dealing with Apparent Contradictions: Part 15 - Positive vs. Negative Mysterianism (Dale)</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89119</link>
		<dc:creator>trinities - Dealing with Apparent Contradictions: Part 15 - Positive vs. Negative Mysterianism (Dale)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89119</guid>
		<description>[...] to me that an undeveloped positive mysterianism is pretty popular among contemporary theologians. James Anderson is a positive mysterian, and (I think uniquely) has a developed epistemology to go along with and support [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to me that an undeveloped positive mysterianism is pretty popular among contemporary theologians. James Anderson is a positive mysterian, and (I think uniquely) has a developed epistemology to go along with and support [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Herr</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89060</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Herr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89060</guid>
		<description>Dale, thanks for your input on the book. I&#039;ll check it out when I&#039;m able.

Now let me backtrack a bit to the related topic of implicit faith. I&#039;m wondering if your saw this blog post by Alexander Pruss about two months back: http://alexanderpruss.blogspot.com/2008/06/orthodoxy-and-ordinary-believer.html ... I&#039;m glad that he asks, &quot;What about the ordinary believer?&quot; - because, that&#039;s where I&#039;m at. I&#039;m hoping to hear even more about the ordinary believer here at the Trinities blog. I mean, what is a parent supposed to tell their child about the Trinity? That&#039;s my million dollar question. Thanks again for this blog series, keep it going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale, thanks for your input on the book. I&#8217;ll check it out when I&#8217;m able.</p>
<p>Now let me backtrack a bit to the related topic of implicit faith. I&#8217;m wondering if your saw this blog post by Alexander Pruss about two months back: <a href="http://alexanderpruss.blogspot.com/2008/06/orthodoxy-and-ordinary-believer.html" rel="nofollow">http://alexanderpruss.blogspot.com/2008/06/orthodoxy-and-ordinary-believer.html</a> &#8230; I&#8217;m glad that he asks, &#8220;What about the ordinary believer?&#8221; &#8211; because, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at. I&#8217;m hoping to hear even more about the ordinary believer here at the Trinities blog. I mean, what is a parent supposed to tell their child about the Trinity? That&#8217;s my million dollar question. Thanks again for this blog series, keep it going.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89053</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89053</guid>
		<description>Dale,
For your amusement: &lt;a href=&quot;http://faith-theology.blogspot.com/2008/08/five-year-ban-on-word-trinitarian.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; endorses a hiatus on using the word, &quot;trinitarian.&quot;

Another &quot;paradox&quot;? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale,<br />
For your amusement: <a href="http://faith-theology.blogspot.com/2008/08/five-year-ban-on-word-trinitarian.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> endorses a hiatus on using the word, &#8220;trinitarian.&#8221;</p>
<p>Another &#8220;paradox&#8221;? <img src='http://trinities.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89052</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89052</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t offer anything like a general theory of vagueness in the book, but arguably I do offer &quot;a theory that clearly explains the apparent inconsistencies generated by vague [theological] terms while preserving as much as possible our other a priori commitments, e.g., to classical logic (or most of classical logic).&quot;  It&#039;s a theory that tries to do justice to the entire phenomenon of theological paradox, where that paradox arises (in part) from semantic imprecision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t offer anything like a general theory of vagueness in the book, but arguably I do offer &#8220;a theory that clearly explains the apparent inconsistencies generated by vague [theological] terms while preserving as much as possible our other a priori commitments, e.g., to classical logic (or most of classical logic).&#8221;  It&#8217;s a theory that tries to do justice to the entire phenomenon of theological paradox, where that paradox arises (in part) from semantic imprecision.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89038</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89038</guid>
		<description>Sorry to be so long in getting back. I took to concept of being a moon to illustrate the fact that many concepts we take to be well-understood are not. This is what happens a fortiori in contexts of perfect beings. I definitely reject embracing mystery in these contexts as essentially admitting defeat. What we should be doing is the very thing we do in all other philosophical contexts where paradox arises. When we discover that vagueness gives rise to sorites paradoxes, we do not just embrace inconsistency nor do we simply deny that there are vague terms. There definitely are. Rather we try to offer theories of vagueness that DO JUSTICE TO THE ENTIRE PHENOMENON of vagueness. We want a theory that clearly explains the apparent inconsistencies generated by vague terms while preserving as much as possible our other a priori commitments, e.g.,  to classical logic (or most of classical logic).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to be so long in getting back. I took to concept of being a moon to illustrate the fact that many concepts we take to be well-understood are not. This is what happens a fortiori in contexts of perfect beings. I definitely reject embracing mystery in these contexts as essentially admitting defeat. What we should be doing is the very thing we do in all other philosophical contexts where paradox arises. When we discover that vagueness gives rise to sorites paradoxes, we do not just embrace inconsistency nor do we simply deny that there are vague terms. There definitely are. Rather we try to offer theories of vagueness that DO JUSTICE TO THE ENTIRE PHENOMENON of vagueness. We want a theory that clearly explains the apparent inconsistencies generated by vague terms while preserving as much as possible our other a priori commitments, e.g.,  to classical logic (or most of classical logic).</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89035</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89035</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike,

Not all intuitions are created equal. If I find one wavering, coming and going, changing, then it&#039;s a pretty weak one, and will give me at best a weak reason for concluding things are how it seems (in that intuition), i.e. that doctrine D really is contradictory. I agree that the concept of a moon is somewhat vague.

The thing is, in philosophy we have no choice but to trust our (firm, steady, clear) intuitions, all the while admitting that we could be mistaken. I&#039;ll be interested to hear where you come down when I distinguish positive from negative mysterianism (yes, it&#039;s an ugly term!) - hopefully within the next few days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>Not all intuitions are created equal. If I find one wavering, coming and going, changing, then it&#8217;s a pretty weak one, and will give me at best a weak reason for concluding things are how it seems (in that intuition), i.e. that doctrine D really is contradictory. I agree that the concept of a moon is somewhat vague.</p>
<p>The thing is, in philosophy we have no choice but to trust our (firm, steady, clear) intuitions, all the while admitting that we could be mistaken. I&#8217;ll be interested to hear where you come down when I distinguish positive from negative mysterianism (yes, it&#8217;s an ugly term!) &#8211; hopefully within the next few days.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89034</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89034</guid>
		<description>Hi Ryan,

I think his book is well-written, and it is compartmentalized enough that you don&#039;t need to read it straight through. In the later chapters, he pushed the dialectic between him and me a little further. Also interesting are his comments on why he rejects various of (what I call) rational reconstructions of the Trinity. So don&#039;t be afraid to dip in!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ryan,</p>
<p>I think his book is well-written, and it is compartmentalized enough that you don&#8217;t need to read it straight through. In the later chapters, he pushed the dialectic between him and me a little further. Also interesting are his comments on why he rejects various of (what I call) rational reconstructions of the Trinity. So don&#8217;t be afraid to dip in!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89033</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89033</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;C: If some claim appears after careful reflection to be contradictory I shouldn’t believe it.&lt;/i&gt;

Hi Dale,

I also take the line of rejecting (C). But I&#039;m not crazy about the &#039;mysterian&#039; appellation. The reason to reject (C) in my view is that many of our intuitions are not especially well-informed, even intuitions concerning common concepts. To borrow an example from Roy Sorensen, take your concept of &#039;being a moon&#039;. Pretty common. But it is not difficult to show that we don&#039;t have a clear concept of &#039;being a moon&#039;.  Suppose Jupiter&#039;s moon, Io, itself acquired a moon. Would the moon of Io be a moon of Jupiter? Who knows? I&#039;ve never considered whether &#039;being a moon&#039; is transitive. But the concept of omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence are much more complicated than the concpet of being a moon. We just have not considered all of the hypothetical contexts which might illuminate these concepts for us. So I&#039;d deny that we know enough about the content of these concepts to trust the deliverances of &#039;careful reflection&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>C: If some claim appears after careful reflection to be contradictory I shouldn’t believe it.</i></p>
<p>Hi Dale,</p>
<p>I also take the line of rejecting (C). But I&#8217;m not crazy about the &#8216;mysterian&#8217; appellation. The reason to reject (C) in my view is that many of our intuitions are not especially well-informed, even intuitions concerning common concepts. To borrow an example from Roy Sorensen, take your concept of &#8216;being a moon&#8217;. Pretty common. But it is not difficult to show that we don&#8217;t have a clear concept of &#8216;being a moon&#8217;.  Suppose Jupiter&#8217;s moon, Io, itself acquired a moon. Would the moon of Io be a moon of Jupiter? Who knows? I&#8217;ve never considered whether &#8216;being a moon&#8217; is transitive. But the concept of omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence are much more complicated than the concpet of being a moon. We just have not considered all of the hypothetical contexts which might illuminate these concepts for us. So I&#8217;d deny that we know enough about the content of these concepts to trust the deliverances of &#8216;careful reflection&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Herr</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89026</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Herr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89026</guid>
		<description>Anderson&#039;s &quot;Paradox in Christian Theology&quot; sounds fascinating. I just read his article &quot;In Defence of Mystery: a reply to Dale Tuggy&quot; and I&#039;m hungry for more. However, I&#039;m wondering if his book would be too rough going for a philosophical dilettante like myself. Anyways, looking forward to part 15 and beyond here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson&#8217;s &#8220;Paradox in Christian Theology&#8221; sounds fascinating. I just read his article &#8220;In Defence of Mystery: a reply to Dale Tuggy&#8221; and I&#8217;m hungry for more. However, I&#8217;m wondering if his book would be too rough going for a philosophical dilettante like myself. Anyways, looking forward to part 15 and beyond here.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Tuggy vs. James Anderson on mystery &#171; City of God</title>
		<link>http://trinities.org/blog/archives/397/comment-page-1#comment-89024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Tuggy vs. James Anderson on mystery &#171; City of God</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinities.org/blog/?p=397#comment-89024</guid>
		<description>[...] Tuggy vs. James Anderson on&#160;mystery    Dale Tuggy at trinities has just reviewed Anderson&#8217;s work, mentioned in my posts on the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tuggy vs. James Anderson on&nbsp;mystery    Dale Tuggy at trinities has just reviewed Anderson&#8217;s work, mentioned in my posts on the [...]</p>
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