podcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”

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podcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”

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I might have called this episode “Origen’s two gods and his ‘one God.'” Or even: “Origen’s two deities, his one god, and his ‘one God.'” In it I present the first portion of Origen’s interesting Dialogue with Heraclides, from about the year 254 A.D.

The backstory, in a nutshell: somehow concerns were raised about the bishop Heraclides’s doctrine; apparently he was suspected of being some sort of “monarchian” (rejector of Logos theories). A meeting was called at his church and the famous scholar Origen was brought in to publicly examine him. Someone was there taking it all down, mostly likely one of Origen’s scribes. And this transcript was fairly recently discovered!

Do you think that it has always been agreed mainstream Christian doctrine that the Father and the Son are the same God? If so, this little dialogue is going to surprise you! Also, the nature of Origen’s monotheism may surprise you.

Thanks to Leslie, Joshua, and Sean for their voice acting here.

Here is my modified Chadwick translation presented at the end of this episode:

Narrator: Dialogue of Origen with Heraclides and the Bishops with him concerning the Father and the Son and the Soul. After the bishops Present had raised questions concerning the faith of the bishop Heraclides, that he might confess before all the faith which he held, and after each one had said what he thought and asked questions, Heraclides said:

Heraclides: I also believe what the sacred Scriptures say: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him nothing was made.”

Accordingly, we hold the same faith that is taught in these words, and we believe that Christ took flesh, that he was born, that he went up to heaven in the flesh in which he rose again, that he is sitting at the right hand of the Father, and that from there he shall come and judge the living and the dead, being a god and a man.

Narrator: Origen said:

Origen: Since once an inquiry has begun it is proper to say something upon the subject of the inquiry, I will speak. The whole church is present and listening. It is not right that there should be any difference in knowledge between one church and another, for you are not the false church. I charge you, father Heraclides: God is the almighty, the uncreated, the supreme God who made all things. Do you hold this doctrine?

H: I do. That is what I also believe.

O: Christ Jesus who was in the form of God, being other than the God in whose form he existed, was he a god before he came into the body or not?

H: He was a god before.

O: Was he a god before he came into the body or not?

H: Yes, he was.

O: Was he a god distinct from this god in whose form he existed?

H: Obviously he was distinct from another being and, since he was in the form of him who created all things, he was distinct from him.

O: Is it true, then, that there was a god, the Son of God, the only begotten of God, the firstborn of all creation, and that we need have no fear of saying that in one sense there are two gods, while in another sense there is one god?

H: What you say is evident. But we affirm that God is the almighty, God without beginning, without end, containing all things and not contained by anything; and that his Word is the Son of the living God, a god and a man, through whom all things were made, a god according to the spirit, and a man inasmuch as he was born of Mary.

O: It seems you’ve not answered my question. Explain what you mean. For perhaps I failed to follow you. Is the Father a god?

H: Assuredly.

O: Is the Son distinct from the Father?

H: Of course. How can he be Son if he is also Father?

O: While being distinct from the Father, is the Son himself also a god?

H: He himself is also a god.

O: And do two Gods become a unity?

H: Yes.

O: Do we confess two gods?

H: Yes… But the power is one.

O: Since our brethren take offence at the statement that “there are two gods,” we must formulate the doctrine carefully, and show in what sense they are “two” and in what sense the two are “one god.” Also the holy Scriptures have taught that several things which are two are “one.” And not only things which are two, for they have also taught that in some instances more than two, or even a very much larger number of things, are “one.”

Our present task is not to bring up a difficult subject only to pass it by and deal too quickly with the matter, but for the sake of the simple folk we will chew up, so to speak, the meat, and little by little to instill the doctrine in the ears of our hearers….

Accordingly, there are many things which are two that are said in the Scriptures to be one. What passages of Scripture?

Adam is one person, his wife another. Adam is distinct from his wife, and his wife is distinct from her husband. Yet it is said in the story of the creation of the world that they two are one: “For the two shall be one flesh.” Therefore, sometimes two beings can become one flesh. Notice, however, that in the case of Adam and Eve it is not said that the two shall become one spirit, nor that the two shall become one soul, but that they shall become one flesh.

Again, the righteous man is distinct from Christ; but he is said by the apostle to be one with Christ: “For he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit.” Is it not true that the one is of a subordinate nature or of a low and inferior nature, while Christ’s nature is divine and glorious and blessed? Are they therefore no longer two? Yes, for the man and the woman are “no longer two but one flesh,” and the righteous man and Christ are “one spirit.”

So in relation to the Father and God of the universe, our Savior and Lord is not “one flesh,” nor “one spirit,” but rather something higher than “flesh” and “spirit,” namely, “one god.” The appropriate word when human beings are joined to one another is “flesh.” The appropriate word when a righteous man is joined to Christ is “spirit.” But the word when Christ is united to the Father is not flesh, nor spirit, but more honorable than these —it’s the word “god.” That is why we understand in this sense “I and the Father are one.”

When we pray, because of the one party let us preserve the duality, because of the other party let us hold to the unity. In this way we avoid falling into the opinion of those who have been separated from the Church and turned to the illusory notion of monarchy, who abolish the Son as distinct from the Father and virtually abolish the Father also. Nor do we fall into the other blasphemous doctrine which denies the deity of Christ.

What then do the divine Scriptures mean when they say: “Beside me there is no other God, and there shall be none after me,” and “I am and there is no God but me”? In these utterances we are not to think that the unity applies to the God of the universe … in separation from Christ, and certainly not to Christ in separation from God. Let us rather say that the sense is the same as that of Jesus’ saying, “I and my Father are one.”

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