Search Results for: worship revelation
SCORING THE BURKE – BOWMAN DEBATE – ROUND 3 Re-evaluated (DALE)
The “Great Trinity Debate” has been interesting, exhausting, and a bit hard to follow. It would’ve been better to have somewhat shorter posts and required post-rebuttals. As it is, some of the debate has been tucked away in the comments of the posts, while the blog plugs away on other topics. This sort of substantial, quality content shouldn’t be hidden in comments.
I previously called round 3 a draw. But my call was premature; Burke kept punching, in a long set of comments (#4-15), which substantially strengthened his case. Bowman has left them unanswered for about a week, I believe, as I post this. I re-call this round now for Burke.
Revised score up through round 4:
Bowman: 0
Burke: 3
draw: 1
What he does is address some important texts which as usually read, assert or assume the claims that Jesus created the cosmos, or just that he pre-existed his conception. I can’t summarize Burke’s long exegesis, but I’ll hit a few highlights in this post. What he shows, drawing on some recent scholarship, is that the texts in question can be given non-arbitrary, plausible readings which are consistent with humanitarian christology.
Burke also rebuts some of Bowman’s points re: prayer to Jesus. Bowman argues that Christ can’t be a creature, and must be omniscient (hence divine), if he can hear and answer prayers. This argument is hardly a knockdown one.
Read More »SCORING THE BURKE – BOWMAN DEBATE – ROUND 3 Re-evaluated (DALE)
a case of progressive revelation
Thanks to Dr. James Anderson for his further reply to my reply to his initial answer to the Challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists. His new post does clarify his position for me. Perhaps later, I’ll reply more straightforwardly, but for now… story time! The story concerns premise 4 of the Challenge… The new kid at the high school seemed somehow different. “He seems… spiritual,” mused… Read More »a case of progressive revelation
first Poll – worship
From time to time, I’m going to set up some simple polls for ya’ll to vote in. I’ve decided to set them up outside of WordPress (this blog’s software), so as to avoid various complications. Here’s praying that I don’t run into technical difficulties that are over my head! I’ve shamelessly stolen the four claims – the inconsistent tetrad – from a posting by Jeff… Read More »first Poll – worship
the “Functional Polytheism” accusation
An apologist tries to tag unitarian Christians with some unwelcome words.
Hurtado on the early worship of Jesus
“…earliest believers treated the risen/exalted Jesus as they did only because they felt required to do so by God.”
Who Should Christians Worship?
Should Christians worship only God? Or God and Jesus? Or is it redundant to say that we should worship both God and Jesus? If Jesus isn’t God himself, is it therefore the sin of idolatry to worship Jesus? I address these questions in light of scripture in this screencast version of a talk I gave in Atlanta at the 2012 Theological Conference sponsored by the Atlanta Bible… Read More »Who Should Christians Worship?
Jesus and “god” – part 6 – Jesus as “god” in the New Testament
Is Jesus addressed or described as “god” or “God” (Greek: theos) in the New Testament? Yes. But quite a bit less often than you might think. Theologian Murray Harris wrote a whole book about this, pictured here. I don’t endorse this as a particularly good book – Harris, like many a theologian, mixes linguistic sophistication and wide theological erudition with philosophical unclarity, argumentative ineptitude, and… Read More »Jesus and “god” – part 6 – Jesus as “god” in the New Testament
podcast 137 – Daniel Whitby’s “Mystery and Revelation Inconsistent”
Should we defend what we think are biblical, yet unintelligible or seemingly incoherent claims as “mysteries”?
Zarley on “worship” of Jesus in the New Testament
Theology blogger / author / golf pro Kermit Zarley asks: Is Jesus Divine Because He Was Worshipped?
He answers in the negative. As usual, he highlights some important scholarship. In part,
When the gospel Evangelists report that someone performed proskuneo toward Jesus, Bible translators invariably reveal their Christological bias by rendering it “worship,” suggesting that that person thought Jesus was “divine” or “God.” But when the Evangelists relate that a person performed proskuneo toward someone other than Jesus, they translate it “bowed down,” “bend the knee,” or “prostrate.” So, they translate it “worship” when done to Jesus, but a physical act when done to someone else.
I agree that it is important that Christians should worship Jesus too, and not only God. The New Testament, in my view, clearly teaches this; it is a consequence of his being raised to God’s right hand. I also agree that this is not at all the sin of idolatry.
Keep in mind that the passages he’s discussing above concern Jesus before his resurrection and exaltation. He is clearly worshiped in the fullest religious sense after. e.g. Philippians 2, Revelation 5, as well as prayed to.
Contrary to Mr. Zarley, I do think it is technically a violation of the command, now made out of date by the one who issued it, to worship only Yahweh (i.e. the Father). I would add that it’s simply not correct to define the sin of idolatry as worshiping anyone other than God.
I don’t think we can make much progress distinguishing kinds of (religious) worship. To say there are kinds of worship is one thing, but to display the differences is another. But we can distinguish indirect from direct worship, as the New Testament does in several places. We worship God (indirect object) by worshiping his Son (direct object).
Here’s another angle. In the NT, the justification given for worshiping Jesus is that this is our obeying the God who vindicated, raised, and exalted Jesus. Now, if we should worship Jesus because he’s fully divine, or because he’s God himself, or because he shares a divine nature with the Father… wouldn’t that be their main reason?
Below the fold, much better music than we usually feature on this blog. Read More »Zarley on “worship” of Jesus in the New Testament
Larry Hurtado on early Christians’ worship of Jesus
If the earliest Christians’ answer (re: how one can be a monotheist and yet worship both the one God and Jesus) was a good answer then, why isn’t it a good answer now?
Origen, Paul, and Peter: Christians worship the Jews’ god
An interesting little exchange between Origen and the pagan critic Celsus about the god of Christians.
Jesus and “God” – Part 10 – What is worship? (Dale)
- Nothing is appropriately worshipped except God.
- Jesus is appropriately worshipped.
- Therefore, Jesus is God.
This argument is valid. But is it also sound?
It may depend on what is meant by the term “worship”. It seems to me that many contemporary Christian philosophers and theologians understand “worship” in a way that makes 1 true by definition. Read More »Jesus and “God” – Part 10 – What is worship? (Dale)
podcast 121 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 2
In this second part of my discussion with Dr. William Vallicella, I give an argument that when Muslims use the word “Allah” they are referring to the same being Christians refer to when they say “God,” namely, the god of Abraham.
podcast 120 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 1
In this episode I’m joined by Dr. William Vallicella, aka “The Maverick Philosopher” to discuss the recent controversy
podcast 164 – On Counting Gods
The terms “atheism,” “monotheism,” and “polytheism” seem straightforward enough… BUT important ambiguity lurks in the root term “theism.”
podcast 186 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 2
Applying the methodology… can we answer the question?
podcast 185 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 1
Two philosophers give us a sort of recipe for answering this question.
Francis David: Against Worshiping Jesus
There was a famous dispute between the famous unitarian Socinus and a Hungarian unitarian leader Francis David (a.k.a. Ferenc Dávid, Franciscus Davidis; 1510-79) about whether Christians should worship or pray to Jesus. Both were what I call humanitarian unitarians (Jesus did not exist before his conception, and does not have a divine nature.) This dispute went on for some time both in person and in… Read More »Francis David: Against Worshiping Jesus