{"id":2101,"date":"2010-06-10T01:22:42","date_gmt":"2010-06-10T05:22:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=2101"},"modified":"2019-10-27T12:01:44","modified_gmt":"2019-10-27T17:01:44","slug":"no-trinity-no-job-part-2-dale","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/no-trinity-no-job-part-2-dale\/","title":{"rendered":"No Trinity, No Job \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-2102\" style=\"border: 11px solid white;\" title=\"fired2\" alt=\"\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2.jpg\" width=\"467\" height=\"322\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2.jpg 467w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2-300x207.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2-420x290.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2-460x317.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fired2-90x62.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 467px) 100vw, 467px\" \/>Three World Vision employees <a title=\"Part 1 post \" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/archives\/2085\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">are <strong>fired<\/strong><\/a> because according to World Vision they <strong>don&#8217;t believe in that Jesus is &#8220;fully God&#8221;<\/strong> or that he&#8217;s a member of the Trinity.<\/p>\n<p>But<strong> inquiring minds want to know<\/strong>: what <em>did<\/em> they believe, what statement or statements of faith did they sign, and are the beliefs therein necessary and sufficient for being a real Christian? <strong>This time, we&#8217;re digging a little deeper.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Their website saith,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>World Vision U.S. hires only those who agree and accept to its <a href=\"http:\/\/www.worldvision.org\/content.nsf\/about\/hr-faith\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Statement of Faith<\/a> and\/or the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.worldvision.org\/content.nsf\/about\/hr-faith#creed\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apostles&#8217; Creed<\/a>. (<a title=\"their website, employment page\" href=\"http:\/\/www.worldvision.org\/content.nsf\/about\/hr-home?OpenDocument&amp;lpos=top_drp_AboutUs_Careers\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">source<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Interesting! Note the &#8220;and\/or&#8221; &#8211; employees must affirm either one <em>or<\/em> both. As we&#8217;ve <a title=\"post on Burke-Bowman Trinity debate\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/archives\/1981\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">noted before here<\/a> at trinities, <strong>nothing in the so-called Apostles&#8217; Creed requires belief in either the &#8220;full deity&#8221; of Christ (whatever that may mean) or <em>any<\/em> sort of trinitarian theory<\/strong>.<!--more--> Go ahead &#8211; click their link above and read it.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Did the three fired employees disavow the Apostles&#8217; Creed?<\/li>\n<li>Or did they affirm it?<\/li>\n<li>Suppose they accepted it with no reservations&#8230; doesn&#8217;t that mean they could not be fired? If not, why not?<\/li>\n<li>Or did they accept it with reservations?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Here&#8217;s the relevant portion of World Vision&#8217;s statement of faith.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Arial;\">We believe that there is <strong>one God, eternally existent in three persons<\/strong>: Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. <\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Arial;\">We believe in the <strong>deity of our Lord Jesus Christ<\/strong>, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory. (emphases added, <a title=\"World Vision's statement of faith\" href=\"http:\/\/www.worldvision.org\/content.nsf\/about\/hr-faith\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">source<\/a>)<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-2104\" style=\"border: 11px solid white;\" title=\"mush\" alt=\"\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/mush.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/mush.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/mush-90x68.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>I&#8217;m afraid this is typical American evangelical <strong>theological mush<\/strong>, featuring the weasel-words &#8220;in&#8221; (first sentence) and &#8220;deity&#8221; (second item).<\/p>\n<p>The &#8220;in&#8221; phrase is current shorthand for <em>some Trinity theory or other<\/em>, but honestly, <strong>a resourceful unitarian could accept both<\/strong> of the above statements.<\/p>\n<p>Our imaginary unitarian employee of World Vision could defend herself as follows:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Keep in mind that &#8220;person&#8221; means something like a mask, role, or personality &#8211; we&#8217;re not necessarily talking about the modern concept of a self. So, I believe in one God, the Father, who express himself in three persons. First, his own persona, as Father to Jesus and to all believers. Second, through the man Jesus, his special Son and servant. Third, through the guise of his own active power, which can seem like a third party. Do I believe in the deity of Jesus? Certainly. He&#8217;s the Son of God. He was sent by God, and empowered by God&#8217;s spirit. In all these senses, he was a divine man. And yet, he was a man.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Further, &#8220;one God, eternally existent in three persons&#8221; is probably most naturally understood as modalism &#8211; one self, acting or living in three different ways, in three different personalities. And a resourceful social trinitarian like <a title=\"posts on Swinburne's ST\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=swinburne's+social+trinitarian+part+&amp;searchsubmit=Search\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Richard Swinburne<\/a> could no doubt accept the formulas as well.&nbsp;The words in their doctrinal statement, then, <strong>fail to clearly express any precise views<\/strong> about God and Jesus.&nbsp;It seems to me that a lot of evangelical talk of the &#8220;deity of Christ&#8221; (or him &#8220;being God&#8221; or &#8220;being fully God&#8221; or &#8220;100% God&#8221; etc.) functions <em>primarily<\/em> as <strong>a sort of <a title=\"definition of shibboleth\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Shibboleth\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">shibboleth<\/a><\/strong>, and that&#8217;s what is going on here. Their statement also owes something to a distinctively American anti-creedal tradition, which goes back to the founding of our country &#8211; but that&#8217;s a story for another time. The result is a distinctive sort of Christian tradition zealous to police itself for correct beliefs, but without interest in making precise distinctions.<\/p>\n<p>Thanks to Google, <strong>a few more tidbits on our story<\/strong>, from a sort of newsletter by an interested (but uninvolved) lawyer:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Sylvia Spencer, Vicki Hulse and Ted Youngberg (the \u201cEmployees\u201d) were all employed by World Vision.<strong> Like every employee, they attended daily devotions and weekly chapels<\/strong> held during the workday. <strong>However, at some point, the Employees stopped<\/strong> their attendance. World Vision interviewed each Employee as to why they stopped their daily devotions. Their responses were not recorded by the court, but World Vision concluded that each employee had they <strong>denied the deity<\/strong> of Jesus Christ. <strong>Even though the Employees denied this conclusion<\/strong>, World Vision nevertheless terminated their employment. The Employees sued World Vision for firing them, claiming that their terminations were based upon their religious beliefs. (<a title=\"newsletter\" href=\"http:\/\/sarleslaw.com\/news\/NonProfitNewletter_04.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">source,<\/a> emphases added)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This suggests that the three opted out of some required activities &#8211; something unclear in the CT story, which seems to add that they&#8217;d been given permission for some alternative. But more importantly &#8211;<strong> the three who were fired denied the denial? Really?<\/strong> (Imagined conversation: &#8220;Ya&#8217;ll are denying the deity of Christ!&#8221; &#8220;No we aren&#8217;t!&#8221;) What is going on here?<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Are they trinitarians who hold that Father and Son are numerically distinct, but claim that the Son is divine? e.g. Are they social trinitarians?<\/li>\n<li>Are they unitarians? Subordinationists? Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses?<\/li>\n<li>Do they subscribe to kenosis theory?<\/li>\n<li>Are they <strong>dastardly liars<\/strong>, secret admirers of the <a title=\"Jesus Seminar @ Wikipedia\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Jesus_Seminar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jesus Seminar<\/a>, masquerading as evangelical Christians?<\/li>\n<li>Or do they <em>neither affirm nor deny<\/em> the vague thesis?<\/li>\n<li>Are the employees interpreting the statement of faith one way, and the management another?<\/li>\n<li>Or is the dispute about interpretations of the Apostles&#8217; Creed, with World Vision taking the <strong>hopeless position<\/strong> that it clearly requires beliefs that Jesus is &#8220;fully God&#8221; and that he&#8217;s a member of the Trinity?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Slap me and call me &#8220;Curious George&#8221;, but I&#8217;d like to know. <em>If<\/em> this <strong>denial-denial part of the story<\/strong> is true, this is a big complicating factor which CT never should have left out of <a title=\"Part 1 post\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/archives\/2085\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">its story<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Three World Vision employees are fired because according to World Vision they don&#8217;t believe in that Jesus is &#8220;fully God&#8221; or that he&#8217;s a member of the Trinity. But inquiring minds want to know: what did they believe, what statement or statements of faith did they sign, and are the beliefs therein necessary and sufficient&hellip;&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/no-trinity-no-job-part-2-dale\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Read More &raquo;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">No Trinity, No Job \u2013 Part 2<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2104,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"default","neve_meta_container":"default","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"off","neve_meta_content_width":70,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"off","neve_meta_disable_footer":"off","neve_meta_disable_title":"off","footnotes":""},"categories":[15,6,4,14,33,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2101","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-christology","category-complaints","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-incarnation","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2101","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2101"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2101\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":41909,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2101\/revisions\/41909"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2101"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2101"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2101"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}