{"id":2246,"date":"2010-07-25T17:33:51","date_gmt":"2010-07-25T21:33:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=2246"},"modified":"2013-11-23T21:52:00","modified_gmt":"2013-11-24T02:52:00","slug":"is-god-a-self-part-1-dale","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/is-god-a-self-part-1-dale\/","title":{"rendered":"Is God a self? Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-2247\" title=\"smiter\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/smiter.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"311\" height=\"399\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/smiter.jpg 311w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/smiter-234x300.jpg 234w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/smiter-90x115.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 311px) 100vw, 311px\" \/>Many of you know that I&#8217;ve argued in several ways, <a title=\"Dale's published papers online\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/dale\/papers.html\" target=\"_blank\">in print<\/a>, against <strong>&#8220;social&#8221; Trinity theories<\/strong>, and particularly the sort which holds that Father, Son, and Spirit are a group\/community\/quasi-family.<\/p>\n<p>On such theories, it turns out that the one <strong>&#8220;God&#8221; is a group<\/strong> &#8211; a group of equally divine selves (aka gods &#8211; though they don&#8217;t like that term in the plural). <strong>This is surprising to be sure <\/strong>&#8211; is not the God of the Bible a super-duper self? One who is all-knowing, who loves and hates, carries out plans of action, smites and heals? Moreover, <strong>theism<\/strong> is usually explained as belief in one perfect, non-physical self, creator off all else.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Social trinitarians have of late been pushing back<\/strong>. &#8220;God isn&#8217;t one person, he&#8217;s three! We <em>Christians<\/em> have never said &#8211; or at least, never should have said &#8211; that God is a person. He&#8217;s not a person, though he&#8217;s person<em>al<\/em>. And that makes our view monotheistic.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>(A similar dialectic occurs with &#8220;social&#8221; theorists who don&#8217;t say that Father, Son, and Spirit are a mere group. Instead, they constitute or are within some one thing &#8211; <em>but<\/em> this thing is not a self.)<\/p>\n<p>Now I think this response is <strong>wrongheaded<\/strong> in several ways, and am working on at least one paper responding to it.<\/p>\n<p>But for now I note that a number of these &#8220;social&#8221; theorists are evangelicals, and thus many of them tend to take positions in other areas which push in the opposite direction.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Christology. <\/strong>Who is Christ? God. And Christ is a self &#8211; one with two natures. Thus, God <em>is<\/em> a self as well &#8211; the same one as Christ.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Theistic piety or spirituality<\/strong>. God is a he, not an it. He&#8217;s someone you can talk to, someone who loves you, someone who sympathizes with the downtrodden. He&#8217;s far from being an it &#8211; a force, &#8220;being itself&#8221;, or the other high-falutin&#8217;, abstract things people have imagined. Which brings us to:<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Worldview&#8221; <strong>apologetics<\/strong>. Eastern (Buddhist, Hindu) views of ultimate reality are often criticized for their &#8220;impersonal&#8221; take on the ultimate. Theism &#8211; seemingly belief in a perfect, provident self &#8211; is argued to be more reasonable, and perhaps more practical as well.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>In this series, we&#8217;re going to have <strong>fun with video<\/strong> &#8211; with interviews with some philosophical theologians, Christian and otherwise. Each time I&#8217;ll like an interview clip, and comment on the guy&#8217;s answers.<\/p>\n<p>These are from <strong>the TV series <\/strong><em><a title=\"Closer to the Truth\" href=\"http:\/\/www.closertotruth.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Closer to the Truth<\/strong><\/a>, <span style=\"font-style: normal;\">which I believe airs on some American PBS stations.<\/span><\/em> The interviewer has <a title=\"Robert Lawrence Kuhn\" href=\"http:\/\/www.closertotruth.com\/robert-lawrence-kuhn\" target=\"_blank\">a pretty impressive resume<\/a>. He asks each interviewee: <strong>&#8220;Is God a person?&#8221;<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The question, I take it, is <em>not<\/em> whether or not God is a human being &#8211; but rather, is God a self &#8211; a subject of consciousness, what Descartes calls a thinking thing, something with will and intellect.<\/p>\n<p><a title=\"Gillman\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/archives\/2270\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Next time: Jewish philosopher-theologian Neil Gillman. <\/em><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Many of you know that I&#8217;ve argued in several ways, in print, against &#8220;social&#8221; Trinity theories, and particularly the sort which holds that Father, Son, and Spirit are a group\/community\/quasi-family. On such theories, it turns out that the one &#8220;God&#8221; is a group &#8211; a group of equally divine selves (aka gods &#8211; though they&hellip;&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/is-god-a-self-part-1-dale\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Read More &raquo;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Is God a self? Part 1<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2247,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,15,4,33,38,9,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2246","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-christology","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-incarnation","category-monotheism","category-philosophy","category-theories"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2246","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2246"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2246\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5370,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2246\/revisions\/5370"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2247"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2246"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2246"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2246"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}