{"id":3066,"date":"2011-08-15T09:47:13","date_gmt":"2011-08-15T13:47:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=3066"},"modified":"2014-09-13T08:02:06","modified_gmt":"2014-09-13T12:02:06","slug":"linkage-did-god-the-son-change-in-becoming-incarnate-dale","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/linkage-did-god-the-son-change-in-becoming-incarnate-dale\/","title":{"rendered":"Linkage: Did God the Son change in becoming incarnate?"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"“Classic” (i.e. mainstream catholic, Platonic) Christian theism holds that God is timeless, and so incapable of any change<\/strong> whatever.<\/p>\n

And they add: the Word is God, and the Word became<\/em> flesh<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

Sounds like a change<\/strong>, doesn’t it? First, the Word is simply divine, and a moment later, he’s entered into a “hypostatic union” with a “complete human nature.”<\/p>\n

Reformed philosophical theologian James Anderson takes a crack<\/a> at this one<\/strong>. (HT: Triablogue<\/a>.) I much like his set-up. I’m less keen on the solution. Short answer: it’s a mystery (apparent contradiction). You’ll have to read his post to see why I chose this pic.<\/p>\n

A few quick comments<\/strong>: first,\u00a0I’m with Craig.<\/strong> I don’t think his position implies any change in God. Rather: if God hadn’t created, he’d be timeless. But given that God has created, he’s “in time.” It seems to me that if there is time, there’s no where else to be. Our spatial metaphors (“outside” time, “above” time) are wrongheaded. So are the trapping metaphors (e.g. “bound by” time). If God freely chose to create, then he freely chose to operated “in time” and he’s not been “trapped” by anything other than logical consistency. Anderson wants there to be paradox (apparent contradiction) in Craig’s view, but I don’t see it.<\/p>\n

Like many Christian philosophers, I agree with this crucial point<\/strong> by Anderson:<\/p>\n

…the biblical statements about God not changing needn\u2019t be taken in a way that rules out change\u00a0in any sense<\/em>. The focus in these texts is on God\u2019s character and his faithfulness to his promises.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

That’s right. So the “fathers” never had any good scriptural grounds for their belief in divine timelessness. It was all based on philosophical reasons<\/strong>, and I would say bad ones at that. But that’s another post.<\/p>\n

The line that God only appears to change<\/strong>, but doesn’t really change, implies that he cannot ever genuinely respond<\/em> to human beings. He does not open himself to be influenced either way by us. And arguably, that makes a real friendship with God impossible. But that such is possible, is at the very heart and soul of the whole Bible.<\/p>\n

On to qua-stuff<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

…we should say that Jesus was omniscient\u00a0with respect to his divine nature<\/em>and gained wisdom\u00a0with respect to his human nature<\/em>. On this basis, it seems natural to say that God the Son is timeless and unchangeable\u00a0with respect to his divine nature<\/em>\u00a0but temporal and changeable\u00a0with respect to his human nature<\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The problem with this is that it seems that what you know-in-a-nature, you know. And what you don’t-know-in-a-nature, you don’t know. So this seems no improvement<\/strong> on just saying that Jesus knows and doesn’t know something, or that he knows all, and doesn’t know some. Oddly enough, I think James would agree.<\/p>\n

Again, if some self has an essential nature which requires X, then he himself must be X. So with the two-natured Jesus, if the divine nature requires the impossibility of change, then Jesus can’t change. And if his human nature requires the possibility of change, then Jesus can change. So he can and he can’t.<\/p>\n

But, he did. So, he can.<\/strong> Ergo, he was not divine and\/or divinity doesn’t require the impossibility of change. Ergo, “classic” incarnation theory appears<\/em> to be inconsistent with itself.<\/p>\n

Again, I think James would agree! But maybe he’ll set me straight.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

“Classic” (i.e. mainstream catholic, Platonic) Christian theism holds that God is timeless, and so incapable of any change whatever. And they add: the Word is God, and the Word became flesh. Sounds like a change, doesn’t it? First, the Word is simply divine, and a moment later, he’s entered into a “hypostatic union” with a… Read More »Linkage: Did God the Son change in becoming incarnate?<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3067,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,15,8,10,20,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3066","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-christology","category-linkage","category-logic","category-mystery","category-theories"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3066","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3066"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3066\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6456,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3066\/revisions\/6456"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3067"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3066"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3066"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3066"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}