{"id":35310,"date":"2021-02-02T13:31:00","date_gmt":"2021-02-02T19:31:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=35310"},"modified":"2021-02-02T13:30:26","modified_gmt":"2021-02-02T19:30:26","slug":"evangelical-apologists-take-note-hurtado-on-jesus-and-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/evangelical-apologists-take-note-hurtado-on-jesus-and-god\/","title":{"rendered":"evangelical apologists take note: Hurtado on Jesus and God"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

The late Dr. Larry Hurtado started a fascinating post<\/a><\/strong> by commenting on whether Philippians 2 and Colossians 1 contain material from pre-existing hymns<\/strong>. I’ve always been skeptical\u00a0about this, despite the enthusiasm of some scholars. So are the authors of a recent article, which Dr. Hurtado discusses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

He ventures to make a small comment on their piece, but it is one which evangelical apologists should take note of:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

…in considering the applicability of the category of \u201crhetorical prose hymn\u201d to these passages, they make a curious statement (299-300) that this is \u201centirely dependent on one\u2019s reading of Paul\u2019s Christology, since apart from worshiping Christ as God, these passages could equally be construed as praising Jesus as Lord (but not necessarily as God or even divine).\u201d I am bound to say that this seems to me to reflect a strangely confused set of notions<\/strong>. As should be clear to any serious reader, in the New Testament Jesus is not worshiped \u201cas God\u201d (whatever that may mean) but, instead, with reference to God, as the Son<\/strong> of God, as the Lord appointed by God, as the \u201cimage\u201d of God, etc. To be sure, Jesus is referenced as sharing the divine name and glory, and Old Testament texts originally referring to \u201cGod\u201d (Yahweh) are interpreted with reference to Jesus, and, most importantly, in earliest Christian circles Jesus is accorded the sorts of reverence that are otherwise reserved for deities in the Roman era. So, there can be no question whether the exalted Jesus is treated in the New Testament as \u201cdivine.\u201d<\/strong> But, at the same time, the New Testament (and early Christian writers generally) also distinguish God and Jesus<\/strong>, while also relating them uniquely to each other. (For further discussion, see my book, God in New Testament Theology<\/em>, Abingdon Press, 2010<\/a>.)<\/p>

So, actually, it isn\u2019t an argument against Philippians 2:6-11 or Colossians 1:15-20 possibly being (or deriving from) a \u201crhetorical prose hymn\u201d to hold that neither text presents Jesus being worshiped \u201cas God.\u201d There may be other reasons, but that one simply reflects confused thinking. (emphases and link added)<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

Confused thinking<\/strong> indeed. Evangelical apologists commonly confuse Jesus and God, strongly asserting that this is the whole point of Christianity, “the deity of Christ,” which they understand (sometimes) to mean that Jesus is God himself, that the two are numerically identical. We know this by the form of their arguments. e.g.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

  1. Only Yahweh is called\/does X.<\/li>
  2. Jesus is called\/does X.<\/li>
  3. Therefore, Jesus is Yahweh.<\/li><\/ol>\n\n\n\n
    \"\"<\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

    1 contains a numerical identity claim<\/strong>, and 3 is a numerical identity claim. For the argument to be valid, this must be so. (For more, see this<\/a> and this<\/a> or this<\/a>.) But any Christian should reject 3<\/strong>, thus understood. It is self-evident that a thing can’t at one time differ from itself. But Jesus and God have, do, and will differ. e.g. God has a Son. Jesus doesn’t. God has always been immortal. Jesus died. Thus, as Dr. Hurtado observes, the NT writers all distinguish the two, treating them as non-identical.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

    But like any New Testament reader, at other times these evangelical apologists think of them as distinct selves<\/strong>, and so as distinct beings, ones who love and cooperate with one another, and stand in a Master-Servant, Father-Son relationship. Thus, e.g. the Son can at some times fail to know what the Father knows. They can differ, as they are two.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

    So sometimes P, and other times not-P. Confusion, straight up. Gesturing at the Trinity doesn’t solve the problem<\/strong>, as it’s not clear whether or not it allows Jesus and God (i.e. the Triune God) to be identical. Many learned trinitarians will urge that the Trinity rules out<\/em> the numerical identity of Jesus and God. (Jesus isn’t tripersonal, but the Trinity is.) Of course, in the NT, ho theos<\/em> (“God”) is the Father himself, though a very few times at most Jesus too is addressed by that title.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

    I agree with Dr. Hurtado that Jesus was religiously worshiped<\/a> early on<\/strong>. And I also agree that this doesn’t imply or presuppose that Jesus is God. In the minds of the NT authors, it shows that Jesus is the exalted Son<\/strong> of God.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

    Check out the whole post<\/a>. I think he’s right in not being a “Jesus is God” apologist<\/a>. Do you agree?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    “…in the New Testament Jesus is not worshiped ‘as God’ (whatever that may mean) but, instead, with reference to God, as the Son of God, as the Lord appointed by God…”<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":42023,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"default","neve_meta_container":"default","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"off","neve_meta_content_width":70,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"off","neve_meta_disable_footer":"off","neve_meta_disable_title":"off","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,11,21,16,15,8,43,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-35310","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-art","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-linkage","category-unitarianism","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35310","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=35310"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35310\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43052,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35310\/revisions\/43052"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/42023"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=35310"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=35310"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=35310"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}