{"id":35376,"date":"2015-05-18T16:31:20","date_gmt":"2015-05-18T20:31:20","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=35376"},"modified":"2022-01-16T22:21:49","modified_gmt":"2022-01-17T04:21:49","slug":"podcast-87-kermit-zarley-on-the-deity-and-preexistence-of-jesus","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-87-kermit-zarley-on-the-deity-and-preexistence-of-jesus\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 87 &#8211; Kermit Zarley on the deity and preexistence of Jesus"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_196\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-35376-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities087.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities087.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities087.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities087.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=35376-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities087.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities087.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p>I<strong><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/product\/the-restitution-of-jesus-christ\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-35326 alignleft\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution.png\" alt=\"The Restitution of Jesus Christ by Kermit Zarley\" width=\"300\" height=\"389\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution.png 612w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution-232x300.png 232w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution-420x544.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution-460x595.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitution-90x116.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/strong>n this second conversation (our<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-86-kermit-zarley-on-distinguishing-jesus-and-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> first is here<\/a>), Mr. Kermit Zarley and I discuss a number of themes from his book <strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/product\/the-restitution-of-jesus-christ\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Restitution of Jesus Christ<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, including<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>the evangelical tradition of saying that &#8220;<strong>Jesus is God<\/strong>&#8221; or &#8220;Jesus is divine&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>the biblical phrases &#8220;Son of God&#8221; and &#8220;<strong>the Son of God<\/strong>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li>the texts commonly read as teaching that Jesus <strong>existed before<\/strong> his conception in Mary<\/li>\n<li>the objection that unless Jesus is believed to have both a divine and human nature, one believes that Jesus is &#8220;a <strong>mere man<\/strong>&#8221; (&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.theopedia.com\/Psilanthropism\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">psilanthropism<\/a>&#8220;) &#8211; which is obviously wrong<\/li>\n<li>the traditional view that believing &#8220;the deity of Christ&#8221; is <strong>necessary for being saved<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>You can also <strong>listen t<\/strong><strong>o this episode on<\/strong>\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities podcast @ stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=54067&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Stitcher<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0or <strong><a title=\"trinities @ itunes\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id690304581?mt=2&amp;uo=4&amp;at=11l5XS\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a>\u00a0(please subscribe, rate, and review<\/strong>\u00a0us in either or both \u2013 <strong><a title=\"how to rate us at iTunes and Stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/review\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">directions here<\/a><\/strong>). It is also available on <a title=\"trinities podcast youtube playlist\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLMCt15e8gG-g7t7wo9MCq9KSDSsvGNcsm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Youtube <\/a>(scroll down \u2013 you can\u00a0<a title=\"youtube subscription link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/khanpadawan?sub_confirmation=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">subscribe here<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" size-full wp-image-35378 alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Jesus-before-the-high-priest-at-one-of-his-trails.jpg\" alt=\"Jesus before the high priest at one of his trails\" width=\"441\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Jesus-before-the-high-priest-at-one-of-his-trails.jpg 441w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Jesus-before-the-high-priest-at-one-of-his-trails-265x300.jpg 265w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Jesus-before-the-high-priest-at-one-of-his-trails-420x476.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Jesus-before-the-high-priest-at-one-of-his-trails-90x102.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 441px) 100vw, 441px\" \/><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Kermit Zarley\u2019s home page<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/matthew\/24-36.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Kermit Zarley blog<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/product\/the-restitution-of-jesus-christ\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Restitution of Jesus Christ<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Luke+1%3A35&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Luke 1:35<\/a> (note the &#8220;so&#8221;)<\/li>\n<li><strong>Who do <em>you <\/em>say I am?<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Matthew+16%3A13-16&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Matthew 16:13-16<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark+8%3A27-30&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mark 8:27-30<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Luke+9%3A18-21&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Luke 9:18-21<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>Jesus before the high priest<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark+14%3A53-65&amp;version=NRSV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mark 14:53-65<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Matthew+26%3A57-67&amp;version=NRSV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Matthew 26:57-67<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=luke+22%3A66-71&amp;version=NRSV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Luke 22:66-71<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=John+20%3A30-31&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Thesis statement of John: John 20:30-31<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>&#8220;Preexistence&#8221; texts<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/john\/1-1.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">John 1:1<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I am the bread of life&#8221; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=john+6%3A25-69&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">John 6:25-69<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=John+3&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">&#8220;born again&#8221; John 3<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Before Abraham was, I am.&#8221; <a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/john\/8-58.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">John 8:58<\/a> (<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=John+8%3A58\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">podcast episode<\/a>s)<\/li>\n<li>Jesus&#8217; glory with God &#8220;before the world began&#8221;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=John+17%3A1-5&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> John 17:1-5<\/a> (<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-episode-62-dr-dustin-smith-on-the-preexistence-of-jesus-in-the-gospel-of-john\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">podcast episode<\/a>)\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/isaiah\/52-13.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Isaiah 52:13<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Isaiah+42&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Isaiah 42<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>Does Paul says <strong>that Jesus created<\/strong> the cosmos? <a href=\"http:\/\/Colossians 1:1-20\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Colossians 1<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/concordance\/i\/image_of_god.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">&#8220;image of God<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li>visible vs. invisible <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=1+Timothy+1%3A17&amp;version=NRSV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">1 Timothy 1:17<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Anthony Buzzard and J. Dan Gill give <a href=\"http:\/\/www.21stcr.org\/multimedia-2014\/colossians_chapter_1_ab_jdg.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">a different non-preexistence interpretation<\/a> of Colossians 1<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=origen\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">posts on Origen<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=Justin+Martyr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Justin Martyr<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=Tertullian\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Tertullian<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>the gospel in Acts<\/strong>: note what is and isn&#8217;t here\n<ul>\n<li>Philip and the Eunuch in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Acts+8%3A26-40&amp;version=ESV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Acts 8<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Peter&#8217;s message in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Acts+2%3A14-41&amp;version=ESV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Acts 2<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Chris_Zabriskie\/2009_-_2014\/Chris_Zabriskie_-_2009_-_2014_-_08_-_Air_Hockey_Saloon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Air Hockey Saloon<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Chris_Zabriskie\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Chris Zabriskie<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this second conversation, Mr. Kermit Zarley and I discuss a number of themes from his book The Restitution of Jesus Christ, including<br \/>\nthe evangelical tradition of saying that &#8220;Jesus is God&#8221; or &#8220;Jesus is divine,&#8221; the biblical phrases &#8220;Son of God&#8221; and &#8220;the Son of God,&#8221; the texts commonly read as teaching that Jesus existed before his conception in Mary.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":35378,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,16,15,4,56,8,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-35376","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-interview","category-linkage","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35376","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=35376"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35376\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43656,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35376\/revisions\/43656"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/35378"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=35376"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=35376"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=35376"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}