{"id":35786,"date":"2015-07-27T15:25:49","date_gmt":"2015-07-27T19:25:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=35786"},"modified":"2017-03-13T16:10:31","modified_gmt":"2017-03-13T20:10:31","slug":"podcast-97-dr-michael-heiser-on-the-unseen-realm","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-97-dr-michael-heiser-on-the-unseen-realm\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 97 &#8211; Dr. Michael Heiser on The Unseen Realm"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7686\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-35786-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities097.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities097.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities097.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities097.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=35786-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities097.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities097.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1577995562\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-35787 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Michael-Heiser-The-Unseen-Realm.jpg\" alt=\"Michael Heiser - The Unseen Realm\" width=\"333\" height=\"499\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Michael-Heiser-The-Unseen-Realm.jpg 333w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Michael-Heiser-The-Unseen-Realm-200x300.jpg 200w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Michael-Heiser-The-Unseen-Realm-90x135.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 333px) 100vw, 333px\" \/><\/a><\/strong>Do you view reality as including\u00a0<strong>people, the rest of the physical realm, and God<\/strong>? According to Dr. Michael Heiser, you&#8217;re leaving out a lot. The authors of the Bible hold that there is also an unseen realm, a realm of deities (Hebrew: <em>elohim<\/em>). He argues\u00a0that in the Bible, God is one of many divine beings, although unique among them. And the unique God, Yahweh, presides over a divine council.<\/p>\n<p>In this interview, he discusses his discovery of this aspect of the Old Testament as a graduate student, and discusses many themes from his <strong>new book <em><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1577995562\" target=\"_blank\">The Unseen Realm: Recovering the supernatural worldview of the Bible<\/a><\/em><\/strong>.\u00a0Dr. Heiser focuses in particular on Psalm 82,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>God has taken his place in <strong>the divine council<\/strong>;\u00a0in the midst of the <strong>gods<\/strong> he holds judgment:\u00a0\u201cHow long will you judge unjustly&#8230;?<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cYou are gods,\u00a0sons of the Most High, all of you;\u00a0nevertheless, <strong>like men you shall die<\/strong>,\u00a0and fall like any prince.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>and Deuteronomy 32,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,\u00a0when he divided mankind,\u00a0he <strong>fixed the borders of the peoples\u00a0according to the number of the sons of God<\/strong>.\u00a0But the LORD\u2019s portion is his people,\u00a0Jacob his allotted heritage.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He also explains why the <strong>famous line from Genesis 1<\/strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-35821\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tintoretto_creationoftheanimals-small.jpg\" alt=\"Tintoretto - God creating the animals\" width=\"400\" height=\"228\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tintoretto_creationoftheanimals-small.jpg 400w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tintoretto_creationoftheanimals-small-300x171.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tintoretto_creationoftheanimals-small-90x51.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;<strong>Let <em>us<\/em> make<\/strong> man in <em>our<\/em> image and likeness&#8230;&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>does <strong><em>not<\/em> support the idea that God is multi-personal<\/strong>, and should <em>not<\/em> be read as the Father talking to the Son (i.e. to the pre-human Jesus).<\/p>\n<p>He also explains how this worldview illuminates many <strong>statements by Paul<\/strong>, such as,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the <strong>rulers<\/strong>, against the <strong>authorities<\/strong>, against the <strong>cosmic powers<\/strong> over this present darkness, against the <strong>spiritual forces<\/strong> of evil in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Dr. Heiser touches on many other texts as well, as he does in depth in the book, such as Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2. It&#8217;s an illuminating perspective on the meaning (I would say) of biblical <strong>monotheism<\/strong>. But in Dr. Heiser&#8217;s view, &#8220;monotheism,&#8221; &#8220;polytheism,&#8221; and &#8220;henotheism&#8221; are all ill-suited to describe this worldview. He also discusses the polemical and derivative nature of many passages in the Old Testament, and how this relates to <strong>the end-state of believers<\/strong> in Christ.<\/p>\n<p>You can also <strong>listen t<\/strong><strong>o this episode on<\/strong>\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities podcast @ stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=54067&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0or\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities @ itunes\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id690304581?mt=2&amp;uo=4&amp;at=11l5XS\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes<\/a>\u00a0(please subscribe, rate, and review<\/strong>\u00a0us in either or both \u2013 <strong><a title=\"how to rate us at iTunes and Stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/review\/\" target=\"_blank\">directions here<\/a><\/strong>). It is also available on\u00a0<a title=\"trinities podcast youtube playlist\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLMCt15e8gG-g7t7wo9MCq9KSDSsvGNcsm\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube <\/a>(scroll down \u2013 you can\u00a0<a title=\"youtube subscription link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/khanpadawan?sub_confirmation=1\" target=\"_blank\">subscribe here<\/a>). If you would like to\u00a0<strong>upload audio feedback<\/strong> for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast,\u00a0<a title=\"upload audio feedback for the trinities podcast here\" href=\"http:\/\/www.mediafire.com\/filedrop\/filedrop_hosted.php?drop=96df5ea43b9b7c6582cb95b8c5a7259d7cd8109e0cd009d4a5ecd099cc7e64fb\" target=\"_blank\">put the audio file here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>You can <strong>support the trinities podcast by ordering<\/strong> anything through Amazon.com after clicking through one of our links. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see &#8220;trinities&#8221; in you\u00a0url while at Amazon, then we&#8217;ll get it.)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/drmsh.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Heiser&#8217;s home page<\/a><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nakedbiblepodcast.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Naked Bible podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.thedivinecouncil.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Divine Council<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/drmsh.com\/interviews-2\/\" target=\"_blank\">other interviews<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.logos.com\/products\/search?redirecttoauthor=false&amp;Author=11756%7cMichael+S.+Heiser\" target=\"_blank\">@ Logos<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.logos.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Logos Bible software<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1577995562\" target=\"_blank\"><em>The Unseen Realm<\/em><\/a> <\/strong>(pre-order: released on Sept 1, 2015)<\/li>\n<li><strong>Gerald McDermott, <\/strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0830825649\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>God&#8217;s Rivals<\/strong>: Why has God allowed different religions? Insights from the Bible and the early church<\/a><\/em> (<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/B001HL0EMA\" target=\"_blank\">kindle<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>Hebrew words:\n<ul>\n<li><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblestudytools.com\/lexicons\/hebrew\/nas\/elohiym.html\" target=\"_blank\">elohim<\/a><\/em>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/pants-teaches-us-elohim-god\/\" target=\"_blank\">post on the Hebrew word <em>elohim<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><em><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Shedim\" target=\"_blank\">shedim<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-episode-59-dr-carl-mosser-on-salvation-as-deification\/\">podcast 59 \u2013 Dr. Carl Mosser on salvation as deification<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-episode-60-dr-carl-mosser-on-deification-in-the-bible\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 60 \u2013 Dr. Carl Mosser on deification in the Bible<\/a><\/li>\n<li>This episode&#8217;s <strong>thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Ghofra_Z\/HAIR_1956\/Kosta_T_feat_Ghofra_Z_-_H__A_I_R_-_01_H\" target=\"_blank\">H<\/a>&#8220;<\/strong> by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Kosta_T\/\" target=\"_blank\">Kosta T<\/a>. and <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Ghofra_Z\/\" target=\"_blank\">Ghofra Z<\/a>. <object width=\"300\" height=\"50\"><param name=\"movie\" value=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/swf\/trackplayer.swf\" \/><param name=\"flashvars\" value=\"track=http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/services\/playlists\/embed\/track\/107545.xml\" \/><param name=\"allowscriptaccess\" value=\"sameDomain\" \/><embed type=\"application\/x-shockwave-flash\" src=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/swf\/trackplayer.swf\" width=\"300\" height=\"50\" flashvars=\"track=http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/services\/playlists\/embed\/track\/107545.xml\" allowscriptaccess=\"sameDomain\" \/><\/object><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the Bible, God is one of many divine beings, although unique among them. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":35787,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,16,14,38,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-35786","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-books","category-history","category-monotheism","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35786","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=35786"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35786\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38684,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35786\/revisions\/38684"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/35787"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=35786"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=35786"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=35786"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}