{"id":37159,"date":"2016-03-14T16:50:59","date_gmt":"2016-03-14T20:50:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=37159"},"modified":"2016-03-22T08:08:40","modified_gmt":"2016-03-22T12:08:40","slug":"podcast-130-ehrman-bird-jesus-became-god-part-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-130-ehrman-bird-jesus-became-god-part-3\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 130 \u2013 Ehrman and Bird on How Jesus Became God \u2013 Part 3"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9417\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-37159-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities130.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities130.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities130.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities130.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=37159-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities130.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities130.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-37162\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13.png\" alt=\"2016-03-13\" width=\"400\" height=\"353\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13.png 683w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-300x265.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-420x371.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-460x407.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-90x80.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><strong>Should Dr. Ehrman become a member of &#8220;the early high christology club&#8221;?\u00a0<\/strong>In this final installment, we hear a bit more from Dr. Bird and Dr. Ehrman, as well as their fellow presenters, including Dr. Larry Hurtado, in this concluding panel discussion at the <a href=\"http:\/\/greerheard.com\/wp\/past-events\/how-did-jesus-become-god\/\" target=\"_blank\">2016 Greer-Heard Point-Counterpoint Forum<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Ehrman summarizes his narrative about the early development of christology. Other speakers explore various themes in relation to history and Christian belief. And <strong>Dr. Bird gets the final word; he says that Jesus acted with &#8220;a sense of unmediated authority.&#8221;<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Subjects discussed include<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Does it matter if our best historical investigations conflict with Christian claims?<\/li>\n<li>Is the subject-matter of Christian theology God, or Christian beliefs about God?<\/li>\n<li>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Does the New Testament <strong>blur the distinction<\/strong> between Jesus (God&#8217;s agent) and God (whose agent Jesus is)?&#8221;]<\/li>\n<li>Should a theologian lay aside issues of truth, and focus on just the coherence of the believer&#8217;s outlook, or on how various viewpoints strike us on a gut level?<\/li>\n<li>What is the point trying to show that one&#8217;s christology best fits the gospels, or even the beliefs of Jesus himself, during his earthly ministry?<\/li>\n<li>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;<strong>Was Jesus omniscient<\/strong> during his whole earthly life?&#8221;] If not, how could Jesus have been fully divine? Isn&#8217;t omniscient an essential divine attribute? Should a Christian think that Jesus &#8220;<strong>emptied himself<\/strong>&#8221; of omniscience, or of the use of it, during his earthly life? Is this a traditional catholic approach to Jesus&#8217;s apparent non-omniscience in the gospels?<\/li>\n<li>Do Ehrman and Hurtado share many fundamental points of agreement when it comes to early christology?<\/li>\n<li>Did Jesus&#8217;s early followers infer his pre-existence and full, eternal deity from his resurrection and exaltation?<\/li>\n<li><strong>Who do you say that Jesus is?<\/strong> God? God&#8217;s Messiah? Or merely a failed Jewish prophet?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Let us know\u00a0<\/strong>what you think in the comments below, in our\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/trinities\/\" target=\"_blank\">Facebook group<\/a>, \u00a0upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast,\u00a0<a title=\"upload audio feedback for the trinities podcast here\" href=\"http:\/\/www.mediafire.com\/filedrop\/filedrop_hosted.php?drop=96df5ea43b9b7c6582cb95b8c5a7259d7cd8109e0cd009d4a5ecd099cc7e64fb\" target=\"_blank\">putting the audio file here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>You can also <strong>listen t<\/strong><strong>o this episode on<\/strong>\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities podcast youtube playlist\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/3WKr-dlnMRs\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0(\u00a0<a title=\"youtube subscription link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/khanpadawan?sub_confirmation=1\" target=\"_blank\">subscribe here<\/a>).\u00a0You can <strong>support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.com<\/strong> after <a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/ref=assoc_res_sw_logo?tag=trinitiesorg-20&amp;linkCode=w14&amp;linkID=ISZSX35I27NLT3KG\" target=\"_blank\">clicking through one of our links<\/a>. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see \u201ctrinities\u201d in you\u00a0url while at Amazon, then we\u2019ll get it.)<\/p>\n<p><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-37164\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2.png\" alt=\"2016-03-13 (2)\" width=\"475\" height=\"309\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2.png 761w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2-300x195.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2-420x273.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2-460x299.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-2-90x59.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 475px) 100vw, 475px\" \/>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.greerheard.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Greer-Heard Point-Counterpoint Forum<\/a><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/greerheard.com\/wp\/past-events\/how-did-jesus-become-god\/\" target=\"_blank\">How Did Jesus Become God?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=bTkzve5G8wA\" target=\"_blank\">Concluding Comments<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>Dr.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/larryhurtado.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Larry Hurtado&#8217;s blog<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.bartdehrman.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Bart Ehrman<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/religiousstudies.yale.edu\/people\/dale-martin\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Dale Martin<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.bu.edu\/sth\/profile\/jennifer-wright-knust\/\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Jennifer Wright Knust<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.divinity.cam.ac.uk\/directory\/simon-gathercole\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Simon Gathercole<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/euangelion\/michael-birds-cv\/\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Michael Bird<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblesociety.org.au\/news\/how-an-atheist-became-a-leading-christian-scholar?utm_content=buffer8ec76&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_source=twitter.com&amp;utm_campaign=buffer\" target=\"_blank\">How an atheist became a leading Christian scholar<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 99 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on early high christology\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-99-dr-larry-hurtado-on-early-high-christology\/\">podcast 99 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on early high christology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 100 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-100-dr-larry-hurtado-on-god-in-new-testament-theology\/\">podcast 100 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-61-dr-dustin-smith-on-preexistence-in-ancient-jewish-thought\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 61 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on preexistence in ancient Jewish thought<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 62 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-62-dr-dustin-smith-on-the-preexistence-of-jesus-in-the-gospel-of-john\/\">podcast 62 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>Irenaeus,<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ccel.org\/ccel\/schaff\/anf01.ix.iii.xxix.html\" target=\"_blank\"><em> Against Heresies<\/em> II.28.6, 8<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>Francis X. Gumerlock, <a href=\"http:\/\/francisgumerlock.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/Mark%2013.32%20and%20Christ's%20Supposed%20Ignorance.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">&#8220;Mark 13:32 and Christ\u2019s Supposed Ignorance: Four Patristic Solutions&#8221;<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Edwin K. P. Chong, &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.engr.colostate.edu\/~echong\/apologetics\/mark1332.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">On Jesus&#8217; Eschatological Ignorance<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/only-god-can-forgive-sins-false\/\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cOnly God can forgive sins.\u201d False.<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.oxfordscholarship.com\/view\/10.1093\/acprof:oso\/9780199583164.001.0001\/acprof-9780199583164-chapter-6\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. Stephen T. Davis, &#8220;The Metaphysics of Kenosis&#8221;<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Dr. Stephen Evans, ed.,<em>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1573834440\" target=\"_blank\">Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/hurtado-on-the-worship-of-jesus\/\" target=\"_blank\">Hurtado on the early worship of Jesus<\/a><\/li>\n<li><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-37165\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1.png\" alt=\"2016-03-13 (1)\" width=\"500\" height=\"246\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1.png 500w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1-300x148.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1-420x207.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1-460x226.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016-03-13-1-90x44.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>Dr. Jonathan Z. Smith,\u00a0<em><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0226763633\" target=\"_blank\">Drudgery Divine: On the Comparison of Early Christianities and the Religions of Late Antiquity<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-16-how-is-jesus-the-one-lord\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 16 \u2013 How is Jesus \u201cthe one Lord\u201d?<\/a> \u00a0(on 1 Corinthians 8:4-6)<\/li>\n<li><strong>Texts discussed<\/strong>:\u00a0Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32, John 14:28,\u00a0Mark 2:1-12, Matthew 9:2-8,\u00a0John 20:23,Matthew 16:13-20, Psalm 110:1<\/li>\n<li><strong>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Andy_G_Cohen\/Through_The_Lens\/Andy_G_Cohen_-_A_Human_Being\" target=\"_blank\">A Human Being<\/a>&#8220;<\/strong> by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Andy_G_Cohen\/\" target=\"_blank\">Andy G. Cohen<\/a>.\u00a0Released under a Creative Commons Attribution International License <a href=\"https:\/\/andyg.co\/hen\/songs\/human\" target=\"_blank\">https:\/\/andyg.co\/hen\/songs\/human<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Should Dr. Ehrman become a member of &#8220;the early high christology club&#8221;?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":37162,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,15,6,14,57,13],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37159","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-christology","category-complaints","category-history","category-podcast","category-theologians"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37159","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37159"}],"version-history":[{"count":16,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37159\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37301,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37159\/revisions\/37301"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37162"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37159"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37159"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37159"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}