{"id":37251,"date":"2016-03-21T12:51:51","date_gmt":"2016-03-21T16:51:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=37251"},"modified":"2016-03-22T08:07:37","modified_gmt":"2016-03-22T12:07:37","slug":"podcast-131-10-apologists-mistakes-trinity","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-131-10-apologists-mistakes-trinity\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 131 &#8211; 10 Apologists&#8217; Mistakes about the Trinity &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_2839\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-37251-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities131.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities131.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities131.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities131.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=37251-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities131.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities131.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/delorenzo\/2675869443\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-37252 alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-1024x682.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"458\" height=\"305\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-1024x682.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-768x511.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-420x280.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-460x306.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o-90x60.jpg 90w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2675869443_bb26838110_o.jpg 1748w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 458px) 100vw, 458px\" \/><\/a><strong>Apologetics is hard,\u00a0<\/strong><strong>because<\/strong> it&#8217;s hard be an expert on more than a few subjects. There&#8217;s a strong pressure to just recycle bad arguments and wrongheaded claims propounded by other apologists. &#8220;The&#8221; doctrine of the Trinity is a popular subject of attack and defense, and the topic is difficult, so here as much as anywhere in apologetics, we find this sort of recycling.<\/p>\n<p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;The aggressiveness of a Trinity-defense is too often inversely proportional to the defender&#8217;s knowledge of the history and meaning(s) of the traditional formulas.\u00a0&#8220;]<\/p>\n<p>In this and the next episode, we explore <strong>ten mistakes about the Trinity commonly made by evangelical apologists<\/strong>. This time I discuss the following five, together with some related claims.<\/p>\n<p>10. The Trinity doctrine is <strong>not obviously contradictory, so<\/strong> problem solved!<br \/>\n9. There has <strong>always<\/strong>, or at least since the fourth century, been a single, dominant doctrine of the Trinity.<br \/>\n8. Trinitarian theology is <strong>obviously implied by scripture<\/strong>.<br \/>\n7. &#8220;The&#8221; Trinity doctrine is <strong>&#8220;the Christian view&#8221;<\/strong> about God.<br \/>\n6. Trite, <strong>new-fangled summaries<\/strong> of &#8220;the&#8221; doctrine.<\/p>\n<p><em>Next week: five more mistakes, most of them worse than these.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Dr. William Lane Craig: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.reasonablefaith.org\/\" target=\"_blank\">Reasonable Faith<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Dr. Michael Licona: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.risenjesus.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Risen Jesus<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><em>Note to over-quick web-surfers: I cite Drs. Craig and Licona near the beginning of this episode as examples of apologists who are true experts in what they usually focus on; I didn&#8217;t particularly have either of them in mind when I compiled the list of ten mistakes.<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-standard-opening-move\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Standard Opening Move<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/arguing-against-no-one\/\" target=\"_blank\">Arguing against no one<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/10-steps-towards-getting-less-confused-about-the-trinity-6-get-a-date-part-1\/\" target=\"_blank\">10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity \u2013 #6 get a date \u2013 part 1<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/10-steps-towards-getting-less-confused-about-the-trinity-6-get-a-date-part-2\/\" target=\"_blank\">part 2<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/weasel-talk-about-early-christianity-and-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">weasel-talk about early Christianity and the Trinity<\/a><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-11-tertullian-the-unitarian\/\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-37279\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sorry-wrong-answer.png\" alt=\"sorry wrong answer\" width=\"308\" height=\"348\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sorry-wrong-answer.png 308w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sorry-wrong-answer-266x300.png 266w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sorry-wrong-answer-90x102.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 308px) 100vw, 308px\" \/><\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-11-tertullian-the-unitarian\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 11 \u2013 Tertullian the unitarian<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-lost-early-history-of-unitarian-christian-theology\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/10-steps-towards-getting-less-confused-about-the-trinity-8-trinity-vs-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity \u2013 #8 \u2013 <strong>trinity vs. Trinity<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-30-the-council-of-nicea\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 30 \u2013 The Council of Nicea<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-113-the-council-at-antioch-in-341\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 113 \u2013 the council at Antioch in 341<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">Trinity<\/a>,&#8221;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/trinity-history.html#NewTes\" target=\"_blank\">arguments from the Bible to the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/philoponus\/\" target=\"_blank\">John Philoponus<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/a-national-confession\/\" target=\"_blank\">a national confession<\/a><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s <strong>thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/Descent_of_the_Goober_Monster\/Jesse_Spillane_-_Descent_of_the_Goober_Monster_-_09_New_Jersey\" target=\"_blank\">New Jersey<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/\" target=\"_blank\">Jesse Spillane<\/a><\/strong>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/delorenzo\/2675869443\" target=\"_blank\">Image credit<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Apologetics is hard, because it&#8217;s hard be an expert on more than a few subjects. There&#8217;s a strong pressure to just recycle bad arguments and wrongheaded claims propounded by other apologists. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":37252,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,6,4,14,57,3,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37251","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-complaints","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-podcast","category-theories","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37251","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37251"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37251\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37300,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37251\/revisions\/37300"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37252"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37251"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37251"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37251"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}