{"id":37434,"date":"2016-03-28T13:43:33","date_gmt":"2016-03-28T17:43:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=37434"},"modified":"2016-03-29T09:17:55","modified_gmt":"2016-03-29T13:17:55","slug":"podcast-132-10-apologists-mistakes-about-the-trinity-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-132-10-apologists-mistakes-about-the-trinity-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 132 \u2013 10 Apologists\u2019 Mistakes about the Trinity \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3010\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-37434-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities132.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities132.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities132.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities132.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=37434-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities132.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities132.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;<strong>Trinitarian theology is not served by sophistry, cheerleading, or ignoring relevant work.<\/strong>&#8220;]<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-37435\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-1024x683.jpg\" alt=\"Head in Hands\" width=\"437\" height=\"291\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-420x280.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-460x307.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue-90x60.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 437px) 100vw, 437px\" \/>In this episode, I discuss<strong> five more apologetics face-plants<\/strong> about the Trinity. (<strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-131-10-apologists-mistakes-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">Part 1<\/a><\/strong>)<\/p>\n<p>5. New-fangled slogans and grandiose claims.<br \/>\n4. Dubious &#8220;proofs&#8221; of the Trinity from reason.<br \/>\n3.\u00a0Flights of speculation about the atonement.<br \/>\n2.\u00a0Confusing the Trinity with the &#8220;deity of Christ.&#8221;<br \/>\n1. Linguistic sophistry: &#8220;Let us make,&#8221; &#8220;<em>elohim<\/em>,&#8221; &#8220;<em>echad.<\/em>&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>I end with some advice to those who would do apologetics about the Trinity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Romans 5:8; Hebrews 1:8-9; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Psalm 110:1.<\/li>\n<li><strong>On attempted proofs<\/strong> of the Trinity from reason\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 57 \u2013 Richard Swinburne on the Trinity\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-57-richard-swinburne-on-the-trinity\/\">podcast 57 \u2013 Richard Swinburne on the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 58 \u2013 We can\u2019t prove the Trinity by reason alone\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-58-we-cant-prove-the-trinity-by-reason-alone\/\">podcast 58 \u2013 We can\u2019t prove the Trinity by reason alone<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=Richard+of+St.+Victor\" target=\"_blank\">posts on Richard of St. Victor<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/dale\/SinglePerfect.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">On the Possibility of a Single Perfect Person<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/are-persons-essentially-relational\/\" target=\"_blank\">Are persons essentially relational?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>Atonement theories<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 92 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on objections to atonement theories\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-92-dr-joshua-thurow-on-objections-to-atonement-theories\/\">podcast 92 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on objections to atonement theories<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 91 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on theories of the atonement\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-91-dr-joshua-thurow-on-theories-of-the-atonement\/\">podcast 91 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on theories of the atonement<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>&#8220;the deity of Christ&#8221;<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-37447\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/craig-thats-your-argument-1.png\" alt=\"craig-thats-your-argument\" width=\"312\" height=\"312\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/craig-thats-your-argument-1.png 312w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/craig-thats-your-argument-1-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/craig-thats-your-argument-1-300x300.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/craig-thats-your-argument-1-90x90.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 312px) 100vw, 312px\" \/><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/christological-rhetoric\/\" target=\"_blank\">A Lesson in Christological Rhetoric<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/logos-christology-subordinationism\/\" target=\"_blank\">On Logos christology subordinationism<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=10+steps+towards+getting+less+confused+about+the+Trinity\" target=\"_blank\">10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Famous <strong>unitarians<\/strong> who believed in a divine Jesus but not in a triune God\n<ul>\n<li>Samuel Clarke,\u00a0<em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/samuel-clarke\/the-scripture-doctrine-of-the-trinity-and-related-writings\/paperback\/product-3787826.html\" target=\"_blank\">The Scripture Doctrine of the Trinity<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li>John Biddle, <em>The Apostolical and True Opinion concerning the Holy Trinity<\/em>, \u00a0in <em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/stephen-nye\/the-faith-of-one-god\/paperback\/product-4074169.html\" target=\"_blank\">The Faith of the one God<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/defining-the-concept-of-a-trinitarian\/\" target=\"_blank\">Defining the concept of a trinitarian<\/a><\/li>\n<li>On people other that God being called &#8220;God&#8221;:\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/jesuss-argument-in-john-10\/\" target=\"_blank\">Jesus&#8217;s argument in John 10<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>On Jesus as &#8220;Lord&#8221; in Paul<\/strong>:\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 16 \u2013 How is Jesus \u201cthe one Lord\u201d?\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-16-how-is-jesus-the-one-lord\/\">podcast 16 \u2013 How is Jesus \u201cthe one Lord\u201d?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 15 \u2013 Are Paul\u2019s \u201cone God\u201d and \u201cone Lord\u201d one and the same?\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-15-are-pauls-one-god-and-one-lord-one-and-the-same\/\">podcast 15 \u2013 Are Paul\u2019s \u201cone God\u201d and \u201cone Lord\u201d one and the same?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 14 \u2013 One God, One Lord, Two Interpretations\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-14-one-god-one-lord-two-interpretations\/\">podcast 14 \u2013 One God, One Lord, Two Interpretations<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>On the divine council:\u00a0<a title=\"podcast 97 \u2013 Dr. Michael Heiser on The Unseen Realm\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-97-dr-michael-heiser-on-the-unseen-realm\/\">podcast 97 \u2013 Dr. Michael Heiser on <em>The Unseen Realm<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblehub.com\/hebrew\/430.htm\" target=\"_blank\">elohim<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-37446\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hecklers.jpg\" alt=\"Hecklers\" width=\"440\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hecklers.jpg 440w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hecklers-300x164.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hecklers-420x229.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hecklers-90x49.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 440px) 100vw, 440px\" \/><\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><em><a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/hebrew\/259.htm\" target=\"_blank\">echad<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><strong>&#8220;Trinity&#8221; (by analytic theologians)<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">Baber<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.faculty.wwu.edu\/howardd\/Trinity.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">Howard-Snyder<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">Tuggy<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=evolution+of+my+views+on+the+trinity\" target=\"_blank\">the evolution of my views on the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s <strong>thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/Art_of_Presentation\/Jesse_Spillane_-_Art_of_Presentation_-_02_Cake_or_Pie\" target=\"_blank\">Cake or Pie<\/a>&#8220;<\/strong> by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/\" target=\"_blank\">Jesse Spillane<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Trinitarian theology is not served by sophistry, cheerleading, or ignoring relevant work. In this episode, I discuss five more apologetics face-plants about the Trinity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":37435,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,6,58,4,14,57,3,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37434","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-complaints","category-creeds","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-podcast","category-theories","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37434","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37434"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37434\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37451,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37434\/revisions\/37451"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37435"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37434"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37434"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37434"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}