{"id":37527,"date":"2016-04-25T15:44:24","date_gmt":"2016-04-25T19:44:24","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=37527"},"modified":"2016-04-27T12:54:27","modified_gmt":"2016-04-27T16:54:27","slug":"podcast-136-dr-dustin-smith-on-debating-jesuss-preexistence","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-136-dr-dustin-smith-on-debating-jesuss-preexistence\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 136 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on debating Jesus\u2019s preexistence"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_6660\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-37527-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities136.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities136.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities136.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities136.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=37527-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities136.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities136.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-37541\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14.png\" alt=\"Dr Dustin Smith, Atlanta Bible College\" width=\"424\" height=\"310\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14.png 600w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14-300x220.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14-420x307.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14-460x337.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.29.14-90x66.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 424px) 100vw, 424px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>That Jesus existed before his human life\u00a0has long been a <strong>majority\u00a0view<\/strong> in Christian tradition.\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-135-david-barron-debating-jesuss-preexistence\/\">Last time we talked with Dr. Smith&#8217;s debate partner, Mr. David Barron<\/a>, who argued for this reading of the New Testament.<\/p>\n<p>This time, Dr. Smith&#8217;s thoughts on the debate. He argued for the <strong>minority view<\/strong> that the New Testament doesn&#8217;t teach Jesus&#8217;s literal pre-human existence. As always, I send some hard questions his way, and bring up some wider issues. These include:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Must one arguing this shoulder the <strong>burden of proof?<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What does this have to do with one&#8217;s <strong>anthropology<\/strong>, whether one thinks that human beings consist of body and soul, or are simply living bodies, wholly physical objects?<\/li>\n<li>How are Philo of Alexandria&#8217;s and Justin Martyr&#8217;s views on<strong> God&#8217;s &#8220;Logos&#8221;<\/strong> relevant to this New Testament debate?<\/li>\n<li>Just how are Jesus&#8217;s New Testament <strong>genealogies<\/strong> relevant to the debate?<\/li>\n<li>Doesn&#8217;t <strong>1 Corinthians 10<\/strong> straightforwardly assert that Jesus was active during the Exodus?<\/li>\n<li>And why doesn&#8217;t this text portray the <strong>descent of the Logos<\/strong> into the womb of Mary?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<blockquote><p>The angel said to her, \u201cThe Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Did Dr. Smith effectively make his case?<\/strong> Let us know in the comments section below or in the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/trinities\/\">Facebook group<\/a>.\u00a0[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption (1 Cor 1:30)&#8221;]\u00a0Thanks to Dr. Smith and Mr. Barron for an excellent debate, and for the helpful and engaging interviews.\u00a0<strong>Here below is the whole debate<\/strong>, from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCEWX1GcsAZWmTzItWfzu1lw\">Dr. Smith&#8217;s YouTube channel<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/EQ1RkLEBIEE\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=EQ1RkLEBIEE\">David Barron vs. Dr. Dustin Smith &#8211; Debate on Jesus&#8217; Preexistence<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>Dr. Dustin Smith&#8217;s <\/strong><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/dustinmartyr.wordpress.com\/\">Dustin Martyr blog<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>previous trinities podcast episodes<\/strong> with Dr. Smith\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 119 \u2013 The Son of God 3 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith\u2019s \u201cSocinian\u201d view of Jesus\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-119-the-son-of-god-3-dr-dustin-smiths-socinian-view-of-jesus\/\">podcast 119 \u2013 The Son of God 3 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith\u2019s \u201cSocinian\u201d view of Jesus<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 62 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-62-dr-dustin-smith-on-the-preexistence-of-jesus-in-the-gospel-of-john\/\">podcast 62 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 61 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on preexistence in ancient Jewish thought\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-61-dr-dustin-smith-on-preexistence-in-ancient-jewish-thought\/\">podcast 61 \u2013 Dr. Dustin Smith on preexistence in ancient Jewish thought<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>Raymond Brown,\u00a0<\/strong><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0300140088\"><em><strong>The Birth of the Messiah<\/strong>: A Commentary on the Infancy Narratives in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-37542\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34.png\" alt=\"Dr. Dustin Smith in debate, 2016\" width=\"403\" height=\"345\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34.png 599w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34-300x257.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34-420x360.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34-460x394.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2016-04-25-13.28.34-90x77.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 403px) 100vw, 403px\" \/>Texts discussed<\/strong> in this episode: Luke 1:26-38; Proverbs 3:19; Genesis 1:31; Sirach 24; \u00a0Baruch 4:1; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/philo\/\">Philo of Alexandria<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>David Barron&#8217;s <a href=\"http:\/\/scripturaltruths.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">scripturaltruths.com<\/a><\/strong><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC_TOovl_XZoWQACoctcKr2Q\"><br \/>\n<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/Art_of_Presentation\/Jesse_Spillane_-_Art_of_Presentation_-_08_Sinking_Feeling\">Sinking Feeling<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/\">Jesse Spillane<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This time, Dr. Smith&#8217;s thoughts on the debate. He argued for the minority view that the New Testament doesn&#8217;t teach Jesus&#8217;s literal pre-human existence.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":37541,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,15,54,33,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37527","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-christology","category-debates","category-incarnation","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37527","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37527"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37527\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37572,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37527\/revisions\/37572"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37541"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37527"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37527"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37527"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}