{"id":37672,"date":"2016-05-17T14:42:10","date_gmt":"2016-05-17T18:42:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=37672"},"modified":"2016-05-17T14:42:50","modified_gmt":"2016-05-17T18:42:50","slug":"eternal-dance-three","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/eternal-dance-three\/","title":{"rendered":"An eternal dance of Three?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>This is a <strong>guest post by our friend John Bainbridge<\/strong>, soon to begin work on a Masters in Systematic and Philosophical Theology. An earlier draft was a post in the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/trinities\/\">trinities podcast Facebook group<\/a>. &#8211; Dale<a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/waitingfortheword\/8636119077\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-37674 alignleft\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/holy-spirit-dove-1.jpg\" alt=\"holy spirit dove - from Flikr user &quot;Waiting for the Word&quot; - brightened\" width=\"432\" height=\"378\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/holy-spirit-dove-1.jpg 459w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/holy-spirit-dove-1-300x263.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/holy-spirit-dove-1-420x368.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/holy-spirit-dove-1-90x79.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 432px) 100vw, 432px\" \/><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<p>Perhaps<strong> the greatest issue for Social Trinitarians with respect to the Holy Spirit is &#8220;his&#8221; personhood<\/strong>. Generally, in defense of this personhood, they point to passages that do indeed seem to imply a certain someone, capable of emotion and saying things, for example. These occasional references to which these Trinitarians point are &#8211; initially &#8211; suggestive of personhood, for sure. To my mind, however, there are two significant &#8220;buts&#8221;, and I think <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-25-pastor-sean-finnegan-about-the-holy-spirit-part-1\/\">Pastor Finnegan touches on the first<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>1. The rarity of the suggestive occurrences relative to the more impersonal and dissuasive ones.<br \/>\n2. The absence of love evidenced between the Father or Son and the (or their) Spirit.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>It is on this second point that I have not yet found significant concern within the Trinitarian literature &#8211; but perhaps with good reason. Social Trinitarians in particular should have an issue here. They claim that these three literal persons are bound together in a profound and infinite love that permits a oneness appropriate to singular pronouns. But there is a problem here, well and truly shoved under the carpet \u2013<strong> where is the love<\/strong> of the Father or of the Son for his (or their) Spirit in the Bible?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Grandjete.jpghttp:\/\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-37679\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers.jpg\" alt=\"three dancers - click for image credit\" width=\"474\" height=\"317\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers.jpg 632w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers-300x201.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers-420x281.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers-460x308.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/three-dancers-90x60.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 474px) 100vw, 474px\" \/><\/a>Thus for Social Trinitarians, this should amount to <strong>a serious problem<\/strong>. They claim that Trinity is<strong> a most beautiful and delicate &#8220;dance&#8221;<\/strong> of humble love and collaboration. But it is not enough to point to a few potential occurrences of Holy Spirit personhood to justify the love dance. In order to fill a seemingly gaping hole in Social Trinitarian theology, solid evidence needs to be provided for love of the Father and Son for the Spirit. Where is that evidence?<\/p>\n<p>Since the initial discussion generated by this post on the trinities Facebook page, it has been argued defensively, and perhaps predictably, that the Spirit must be a distinct person because of the <strong>personal language<\/strong> with which this Spirit is sometimes associated. There are <strong>assumptions<\/strong> underlying this sort of approach that I think can be outlined as follows:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>The opposing team (me) believes that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force (or <em>just<\/em> an impersonal force)<\/li>\n<li>Personal language of the Holy Spirit obliterates such crazy ideas.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>I remain open. I honestly don&#8217;t mind if the Holy Spirit has full personhood in the same sense as the Father and the Son. I think that would be pretty cool and<strong> I find the Social Trinitarian rhetoric both captivating and inspiring<\/strong>. If, however, there is a reason why there is <strong>no Biblical<\/strong> <strong>evidence<\/strong> for &#8220;Holy Spirit&#8221; personhood in the inter-divine-persons relations, then the empowering presence of the highly personal God (and Son) at work in people&#8217;s lives could still be &#8220;personal.&#8221; For me, that would remain inspiring and captivating.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Perhaps the greatest issue for Social Trinitarians with respect to the Holy Spirit is &#8220;his&#8221; personhood. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":37679,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,63,6,18,55,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37672","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-being","category-complaints","category-guest-posts","category-holy-spirit","category-theories"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37672","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37672"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37672\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":37689,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37672\/revisions\/37689"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37679"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37672"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37672"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37672"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}