{"id":38011,"date":"2016-10-10T21:00:52","date_gmt":"2016-10-11T01:00:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=38011"},"modified":"2016-10-10T21:02:58","modified_gmt":"2016-10-11T01:02:58","slug":"podcast-154-mormons-seeing-the-man-behind-the-curtain-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-154-mormons-seeing-the-man-behind-the-curtain-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 154 &#8211; Mormons seeing the man behind the curtain &#8211; Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_1121\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-38011-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities154.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities154.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities154.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities154.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=38011-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities154.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities154.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-38012\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating.png\" alt=\"joseph-smith-translating\" width=\"412\" height=\"328\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating.png 655w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating-300x239.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating-420x334.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating-460x366.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Joseph-Smith-translating-90x72.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 412px) 100vw, 412px\" \/>A tightly knit religious group can ignore <strong>outsiders&#8217; criticisms<\/strong> indefinitely. But when <strong>insiders<\/strong> start\u00a0to demonstrate the weakness of the party line&#8230; watch out! Something has to give.<\/p>\n<p>A former President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints once threw down the gauntlet about their founder Joseph Smith, saying that<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>Mormonism&#8230; must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith.<\/strong> He was\u00a0either a Prophet of God&#8230; or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If\u00a0Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, then he should be\u00a0exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false&#8230;\u201d &#8211; Joseph Fielding Smith (1876-1972)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In this episode, I summarize <strong>recent publication by two Mormon insiders<\/strong> who have turned into whistleblowers about the many refuted claims of Joseph Smith &#8211; Grant Palmer, and Jeremy Runnells. Bravely, they&#8217;ve chosen truth over tradition, continuing to publicly seek truth despite\u00a0much pain and social loss. Their labors have not gone unnoticed; there is currently <strong>an exodus of people out<\/strong> of the LDS church, at least in places with widespread internet access. In this episode, you&#8217;ll hear why.<\/p>\n<p><strong>But evangelicals should not gloat. We too are a tightly knit religious community<\/strong>, and one which has very much circled the wagons, creating an insular culture that includes a whole parallel universe of scholars and schools, defended by an army of often half-informed apologists. We have easily brushed\u00a0off the objections of Muslims, &#8220;liberals,&#8221; and &#8220;cultists.&#8221; Such outsiders are easily ignored, and with the applause of the choir, seemingly easily refuted. But what historical and other scholarship have we been ignoring? What will happen when evangelicals don&#8217;t mostly get their information from pastors, parachurch ministries, and evangelical scholars? At the end of this episode, I reflect on <strong>some areas of vulnerability<\/strong> here &#8211; some things hiding behind <em>our<\/em> curtain.<\/p>\n<p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Mormonism must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith.&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Grant_H._Palmer\"><strong>Grant Palmer<\/strong><\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Insiders-View-Mormon-Origins\/dp\/1560851570\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1476142306&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=An+Insider%27s+View+of+Mormon+Origins\"><em><strong>An Insider&#8217;s View of Mormon Origins<\/strong><\/em><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Insiders-View-Mormon-Origins\/dp\/1560851570\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1476142306&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=An+Insider%27s+View+of+Mormon+Origins\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-38018 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Grant-Palmer-An-Insiders-View-of-Mormon-Origins.jpg\" alt=\"grant-palmer-an-insiders-view-of-mormon-origins\" width=\"250\" height=\"373\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Grant-Palmer-An-Insiders-View-of-Mormon-Origins.jpg 250w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Grant-Palmer-An-Insiders-View-of-Mormon-Origins-201x300.jpg 201w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Grant-Palmer-An-Insiders-View-of-Mormon-Origins-90x134.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\" \/><\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/kHsvZooc4Bc\">My Ah-Ha Moments While Researching Mormon History<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/3KpYoMGCqpE\">Joseph Smith&#8217;s Changing View of God<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/3n09I5_74kk\">Uncut Interview: Grant Palmer <\/a>(August 2012)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/E._T._A._Hoffmann#Literary\">E. T. A. Hoffmann<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/L._Ron_Hubbard\">L. Ron Hubbard<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikiquote.org\/wiki\/L._Ron_Hubbard\">his statements about starting a religion<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/tonyortega.org\/2015\/04\/07\/25-of-the-biggest-lies-told-by-l-ron-hubbard-and-the-church-of-scientology\/\">25 biggest lies<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.salon.com\/2005\/06\/28\/dianetics\/\">review of <em>Dianetics<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Bare-Faced-Messiah-True-Story-Hubbard\/dp\/1909269360\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1476147070&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=barefaced+messiah\"><em>Barefaced Messiah<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/hcyzkd_m6KE\">The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim<\/a>\u00a0(<a href=\"http:\/\/www.bookofabraham.info\/\">site<\/a>)\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/_jGadnfI8zU\">A Most Remarkable Book &#8211; Evidence for The Book of Abraham<\/a> (LDS apologists <a href=\"http:\/\/www.fairmormon.org\/\">Fairmormon<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.mormonthink.com\/kinderhookweb.htm\">Kinderhook Plates<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/biography\/James-Jesse-Strang\">James Strang<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.strangite.org\/Law.htm\"><em>The Book of the Law of the Lord<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ellen_G._White\">Ellen G. White<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cofchrist.org\/\">Community of Christ<\/a> (formerly RLDS)<\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/cesletter.com\/\">Letter to a CES Director<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/cesletter.com\/#interview\">Jeremy Runnells\u00a0interviewed by John Dehlin for Mormon Stories<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.lds.org\/topics\/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng\">Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo<\/a>&#8221; \u00a0(official LDS statement about Joseph Smith&#8217;s &#8220;marriages&#8221;)<\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Martin_Harris_(Latter_Day_Saints)\">Martin Harris<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gladden_Bishop\">Gladden Bishop<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.apologeticsindex.org\/762-mormonism-research-resources\">Apologetics Index &#8211; Mormonism<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=10+steps+towards+getting+less+confused+about+the+Trinity\">10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/\">Kermit Zarley<\/a>\u00a0(<a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/kermitzarleyblog\/\">blog<\/a>)<\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/kermitzarley.com\/product\/the-restitution-of-jesus-christ\/\"><em>The Restitution of Jesus Christ<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 87 \u2013 Kermit Zarley on the deity and preexistence of Jesus\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-87-kermit-zarley-on-the-deity-and-preexistence-of-jesus\/\">podcast 87 \u2013 Kermit Zarley on the deity and preexistence of Jesus<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 86 \u2013 Kermit Zarley on distinguishing Jesus and God\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-86-kermit-zarley-on-distinguishing-jesus-and-god\/\">podcast 86 \u2013 Kermit Zarley on distinguishing Jesus and God<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>A.T. Hanson, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Image-Invisible-ANTHONY-TYRRELL-HANSON\/dp\/0334006740\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1476146471&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=Hanson%2C+The+Image+of+the+Invisible+God\"><em>The Image of the Invisible God<\/em><\/a> (p. 87)<\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/Art_of_Presentation\/Jesse_Spillane_-_Art_of_Presentation_-_03_Molten_Snow\">Molten Snow<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/\">Jesse Spillane<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A tightly knit religious group can ignore outsiders&#8217; criticisms indefinitely. But when insiders&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":38012,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,71,16,6,81,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-38011","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-atheism","category-books","category-complaints","category-mormonism","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38011","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38011"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38011\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38022,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38011\/revisions\/38022"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38012"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38011"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38011"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38011"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}