{"id":38033,"date":"2016-10-17T11:51:22","date_gmt":"2016-10-17T15:51:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=38033"},"modified":"2016-10-17T11:53:40","modified_gmt":"2016-10-17T15:53:40","slug":"podcast-155-dr-j-r-daniel-kirk-on-a-man-attested-by-god-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-155-dr-j-r-daniel-kirk-on-a-man-attested-by-god-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 155 &#8211; Dr. J.R. Daniel Kirk on A Man Attested by God &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_8464\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-38033-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities155.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities155.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities155.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities155.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=38033-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/p\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities155.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities155.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-38034\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-683x1024.jpg\" alt=\"kirk-a-man-attested-by-god\" width=\"295\" height=\"442\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-683x1024.jpg 683w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-200x300.jpg 200w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-768x1152.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-420x630.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-460x690.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God-90x135.jpg 90w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Kirk-A-man-attested-by-God.jpg 1800w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 295px) 100vw, 295px\" \/><strong>Do the gospels according to Matthew, Mark, and Luke discreetly but clearly imply that Jesus is God?<\/strong> This has become a popular reading lately among evangelicals, thanks in large part to <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-13-on-bauckhams-bargain\/\">the work of Dr. Richard Bauckham<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>A popular argument strategy has been <strong>to focus on the earliest gospel<\/strong>, and the one which arguably has the least material from which to argue that Jesus is presented as divine. <em>Even this<\/em> gospel, it is argued, in its very first chapter, <strong>hints that Jesus is God himself<\/strong>, when this passage is said to be fulfilled:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>A voice cries out: \u201cIn the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.&#8221; (Isaiah 40:3, NRSV)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Clearly, in Mark Jesus is the one for whom a way is being prepared; so, by referencing this text, the author is telling us that Jesus is God, right?<strong> Wrong, according to Dr. Kirk.<\/strong> As he explains here (starting at around 15:13) and argues at length in the book, this is a misreading of Mark 1. When we pay careful attention to the texts and how the author is using them, it seems that he&#8217;s deliberately avoided calling Jesus &#8220;God&#8221; here. What is actually in Mark 1 isn&#8217;t exactly what is above, but rather, filling in the names of the three characters involved according to this gospel:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cSee, I [God] am sending my messenger [John the Baptist] ahead of you [Jesus], who will prepare your [Jesus&#8217;s] way; the voice of one [John] crying out in the wilderness: \u2018Prepare the way of the Lord [Jesus], make his [Jesus&#8217;s] paths straight\u2019\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>As Dr. Kirk explains, here we are presented with<strong> three characters<\/strong>: God, Jesus, and John the Baptist.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Kirk&#8217;s<strong> overall thesis<\/strong> in this book is that in the first three gospels Jesus is presented as <strong>an &#8220;idealized human figure,&#8221;<\/strong> a category which he explains using numerous ancient Jewish texts, biblical and extra-biblical. In our conversation here, he focuses on the interesting case of <strong>Moses<\/strong>. In light of this whole ancient Jewish context, Dr. Kirk says that<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8230;everything that is said about Jesus in the synoptic gospels has been said about other glorified, idealized human figures in the story of Israel. &#8230;we see these as stories about a messiah, a surprising messiah&#8230;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>One surprising aspect of Jesus&#8217;s ministry is his <strong>authority to forgive sins<\/strong>. But as Dr. Kirk explains (18:25), the text itself (Mark 2:10) presents Jesus as an extraordinary man who has been granted this authority by God. Throughout the book Dr. Kirk distinguishes <strong>identifying Jesus <em>with<\/em> God<\/strong> from <strong>identifying Jesus <em>as<\/em> God<\/strong>. We discuss this distinction and Dr. Kirk&#8217;s contention that the synoptics frequently do the former but, contra Bauckham and others, never do the latter.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Kirk contrasts the christologies of the synoptics with that of the fourth gospel.<strong> In part 2 of our discussion next week<\/strong>, we&#8217;ll talk about this, and about the fact that in the synoptics people sometimes worship Jesus. [spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;&#8216;Everything that is said about Jesus in the synoptic gospels has been said about other glorified, idealized human figures in the story of Israel.'&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/s\/ref=assoc_res_sw_view_all?tag=trinitiesorg-20&amp;link_code=w14&amp;linkID=ISZSX35I27NLT3KG&amp;_encoding=UTF-8&amp;field-keywords=a+man+attested+by+god\"><em>A Man Attested by God: The Human Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels<\/em><\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Dr. Kirk&#8217;s <strong>blog <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/storiedtheology\/\">Storied Theology<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jrdkirk.com\/\">Dr. Kirk&#8217;s home page<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=xvrkQyM_ttI\">Dr. Kirk in conversation with Sir Anthony Buzzard and other biblical unitarians about<em> A Man Attested by God<\/em><\/a><em><a href=\"http:\/\/themindrenewed.com\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-38042\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/The-Mind-Renewed-podcast.png\" alt=\"the-mind-renewed-podcast\" width=\"220\" height=\"220\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/The-Mind-Renewed-podcast.png 220w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/The-Mind-Renewed-podcast-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/The-Mind-Renewed-podcast-90x90.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 220px) 100vw, 220px\" \/><\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/player.fm\/series\/the-mind-renewed-thinking-christianly-in-a-new-world-order\/tmr-111-dr-mike-licona-on-the-gospels-and-their-contradifferences\"><strong>The Mind Reneved 111 : Dr. Mike Licona : On the Gospels and Their Contradifferences<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li>Simon Gathercole, <a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0802829015\"><em>The Preexistent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark and Luke <\/em><\/a>(<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/B009LDXUK4\">kindle<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>Rickki Watts,<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0801022517\"><em> Isaiah&#8217;s New Exodus in Mark<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li>Richard Hays, <a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1481302337\"><em>Reading Backwards <\/em><\/a>(<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/B00OYV36LQ\">kindle<\/a>)\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1481304917\"><em>Echoes of Scriptures in the Gospel<\/em>s<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>Luke 7:33; Luke 5:32; Mark 1:1-3; Isaiah 40:3; Malachi 3:1, Exodus 23; John 20:23;\u00a0 Daniel 7:13; Mark 1:11; Acts 2:22; Mark 15:34<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/only-god-can-forgive-sins-false\/\">\u201cOnly God can forgive sins.\u201d False.<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god\/\">Does Mark teach that Jesus is God?<\/a><\/strong><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/mark-jesus-is-gods-son-the-messiah\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-38038\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me.jpg\" alt=\"my-god-my-god-why-have-you-forsaken-me\" width=\"405\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me.jpg 675w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me-300x167.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me-420x233.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me-460x256.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/My-God-my-God-why-have-you-forsaken-me-90x50.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 405px) 100vw, 405px\" \/><\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/mark-jesus-is-gods-son-the-messiah\/\">Mark: Jesus is God\u2019s Son, the Messiah<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/\">Dr. James McGrath&#8217;s blog Religion Prof<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/christological-rhetoric\/\">A Lesson in Christological Rhetoric<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-99-dr-larry-hurtado-on-early-high-christology\/\">podcast 99 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on early high christology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-27-interview-with-dr-william-hasker-about-his-metaphysics-and-the-tripersonal-god-part-1\/\">podcast 27 \u2013 Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/restitutio.org\/\">Restitutio podcast<\/a><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/restitutio.org\/2016\/10\/09\/interview-6-dale-tuggys-journey\/\">Interview 6: Dale Tuggy\u2019s Journey<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/restitutio.org\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-38041 alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo.png\" alt=\"restitutio-podcast-logo\" width=\"356\" height=\"71\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo.png 477w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo-300x60.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo-420x84.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo-460x92.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Restitutio-podcast-logo-90x18.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 356px) 100vw, 356px\" \/><\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/restitutio.org\/2016\/10\/16\/interview-7-an-analytic-philosopher-unleashes-logic-on-the-trinity-doctrine\/\">Interview 7: An Analytic Philosopher Unleashes Logic on <del>the<\/del> Trinity Doctrine<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s <strong>thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Andy_G_Cohen\/MUL__DIV_1198\/Andy_G_Cohen_-_MULDIV_-_01_-_Piscoid_1803\">Piscoid<\/a>&#8221; by Andy G. Cohen<\/strong>. It is released under a Creative Commons Attribution International License \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/andyg.co\/hen\">https:\/\/andyg.co\/hen<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Do Matthew, Mark, and Luke discreetly but clearly imply that Jesus is God?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":38067,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,33,56,57,77],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-38033","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-incarnation","category-interview","category-podcast","category-protestant"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38033","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38033"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38033\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38066,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38033\/revisions\/38066"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38067"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38033"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38033"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38033"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}