{"id":38561,"date":"2017-03-06T14:54:57","date_gmt":"2017-03-06T19:54:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=38561"},"modified":"2017-03-06T14:54:57","modified_gmt":"2017-03-06T19:54:57","slug":"podcast-174-the-first-sirmian-creed-351","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-174-the-first-sirmian-creed-351\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 174 &#8211; The First Sirmian creed (351)"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7758\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-38561-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities174.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities174.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities174.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities174.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=38561-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities174.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities174.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Constantius_II#\/media\/File:Double_Centenionalis_Magnentius-XR-s4017.jpghttp:\/\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-38562\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Double_Centenionalis_Magnentius-XR-s4017.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"470\" height=\"227\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Double_Centenionalis_Magnentius-XR-s4017.jpg 557w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Double_Centenionalis_Magnentius-XR-s4017-450x217.jpg 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 470px) 100vw, 470px\" \/><\/a>In the reign of <strong>Constantius II <\/strong>yet another council offered language to replace Nicea, and again to condemn Photinus his teacher Marcellus.<\/p>\n<p>At 351 in Sirmium, an eastern council pronounced <strong>curses on<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>the condemned views ascribed to Arius<\/li>\n<li>other what we can call &#8220;extreme subordinationist&#8221; views<\/li>\n<li>all claims and exegesis perceived as &#8220;monarchian,&#8221; and<\/li>\n<li>some claims which the Nicene creed might be thought to reply.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Yet this creed too is <strong>subordinationist<\/strong>; that&#8217;s how it preserves monotheism, following earlier catholic traditions.<\/p>\n<p>In this episode I explain the <strong>context of Constantius&#8217;s reign<\/strong>, discuss the debate at this council involving Photinus, present the &#8220;anathemas&#8221; that this council added to <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-114-the-recycled-creed\/\">the recycled creed<\/a>, and focus on how it secures <strong>monotheism<\/strong>. I contrast their method with that of the Nicene bishop <strong>Hilary of St. Poitiers<\/strong> (c. 310 \u2013 c. 367), one of our sources for this creed. I then trace back this insistence on the <strong>language of &#8220;one God&#8221;<\/strong> to Origen (c. 186-255), and find it in triadic form in Apollinarus of Laodicea (c. 315-392). I suggest that this is <strong>a key step in the evolution of catholic tradition<\/strong> from unitarian to trinitarian theology.<\/p>\n<p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Father, Son, and Spirit: &#8220;one God&#8221; or one god?&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Constans#\/media\/File:Impero_Romano_da_maggio_a_settembre_337.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-38577\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Impero_Romano_da_maggio_a_settembre_337.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"460\" height=\"318\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Impero_Romano_da_maggio_a_settembre_337.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Impero_Romano_da_maggio_a_settembre_337-450x311.png 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 460px) 100vw, 460px\" \/><\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Sirmium\">the ancient city of Sirmium<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-114-the-recycled-creed\/\">podcast 114 \u2013 the recycled creed (342-359)<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Athanasius&#8217;s account of this meeting and creed, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ccel.org\/ccel\/schaff\/npnf204.xxii.ii.ii.html\"><em>De Synodis<\/em> section 27<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/biography\/Constantine-I-Roman-emperor\">Constantine<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/biography\/Constantius-II\">Constantius II (r. 337-61)<\/a><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li>his territory was initially the light blue part on the right &#8211; then after a few years, all four areas (the united empire)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li>Roger Olson,<a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0830815058\"><em> The Story of Christian Theology<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/earlychurch.org.uk\/hilary.php\">Hilary of Poitiers<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li>his discussion of this creed and its anathemas in his <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ccel.org\/ccel\/schaff\/npnf209.ii.iv.ii.html\"><em>De Synodis<\/em>, aka <em>On the Councils, or, The Faith of the Easterns<\/em>, sections 38ff<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-18-lewis-vs-rogers-2-rebuttals\/\">podcast 18 \u2013 Lewis vs. Rogers 2 \u2013 rebuttals<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#RelIde\">relative identity Trinity theories<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Adam_and_Eve#\/media\/File:Lucas_Cranach_the_Elder_-_Adam_und_Eva_im_Paradies_%28S%C3%BCndenfall%29_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-38572\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Lucas_Cranach_the_Elder_-_Adam_und_Eva_im_Paradies_S\u00fcndenfall_-_Google_Art_Project-detail.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"450\" height=\"290\" \/><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/B00EOHHUZ8\"><em>Origen: Treatise on the Passover and <strong>Dialogue with Heraclides<\/strong> and his Fellow Bishops on the Father, the Son, and the Soul<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.fourthcentury.com\/apollinaris-of-laodicea\">Apollinaris of Laodicea<\/a> and his quoted <a href=\"http:\/\/www.fourthcentury.com\/fides-secundum-partem\/\">fragments <\/a><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Artofescapism\/Midnight_Caravan\/Watching_from_Red_Hill\">Watching from Red Hill<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Artofescapism\/\">Artofescapism<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the reign of Constantius II yet another council offered language to replace Nicea&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":38562,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[58,4,14,38,57,76,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-38561","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-creeds","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-monotheism","category-podcast","category-roman-catholicism","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38561","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38561"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38561\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38592,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38561\/revisions\/38592"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38562"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38561"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38561"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38561"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}