{"id":38795,"date":"2017-04-17T17:07:59","date_gmt":"2017-04-17T21:07:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=38795"},"modified":"2017-04-17T17:09:15","modified_gmt":"2017-04-17T21:09:15","slug":"podcast-179-apologists-on-how-god-can-die-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-179-apologists-on-how-god-can-die-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 179 \u2013 Apologists on how God can die \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_908\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-38795-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities179.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities179.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities179.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities179.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=38795-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities179.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities179.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><a href=\"https:\/\/upload.wikimedia.org\/wikipedia\/commons\/c\/c8\/Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes_%28Gem%C3%A4ldegalerie_Alte_Meister_Kassel%29.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-38796 alignleft\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes_Gem\u00e4ldegalerie_Alte_Meister_Kassel-1024x886.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"454\" height=\"393\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes_Gem\u00e4ldegalerie_Alte_Meister_Kassel-1024x886.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes_Gem\u00e4ldegalerie_Alte_Meister_Kassel-450x389.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes_Gem\u00e4ldegalerie_Alte_Meister_Kassel-768x664.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 454px) 100vw, 454px\" \/><\/a>In this episode I first reply to<strong> a critique of <\/strong><a title=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\"><strong>podcast 145<\/strong> \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a> by <a href=\"https:\/\/triablogue.blogspot.com\/2017\/04\/the-immortal-dies.html\">blogger Steve Hays<\/a>. This centers on the following <strong>inconsistent triad<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>1. Jesus died.<br \/>\n2. Jesus was fully divine.<br \/>\n3. No fully divine being has ever died.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>While Hays gestures at a solution, he doesn&#8217;t actually give one; he merely assumes that <strong><em>somehow<\/em> the two natures<\/strong> traditions show how the inconsistent triad is in fact consistent. But he only manages to assert an apparent contradiction.<\/p>\n<p>We then hear from some <strong>Catholic Answers apologists<\/strong>, who also evoke the doctrine of two natures, which they say imply that Christ could &#8220;experience death,&#8221; separation of soul and body.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, we hear answer about Jesus&#8217;s death on the cross from <a href=\"https:\/\/carm.org\/matt-slick\">evangelical apologist Matt Slick of CARM<\/a>. Our discussion reveals that catholic traditions use terms like &#8220;Christ&#8221; and &#8220;Jesus&#8221; and &#8220;Son&#8221; ambiguously. These can refer to: the human nature, the divine nature (the Logos), or the whole Christ (with divine and human natures). As I understand him, <strong>Mr. Slick <em>does<\/em> have an answer<\/strong> to my inconsistent triad, arguing that &#8220;Jesus&#8221; is ambiguous there. On one reading, 2 is false, and on another, 1 is false. I argue, though, that this solution comes at too high a cost.<\/p>\n<p>Do you agree? Or have I overlooked something relevant about &#8220;two natures&#8221; theories? Or are you willing to reform catholic traditions in light of clear scriptural teaching?<\/p>\n<p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Do Jesus&#8217;s &#8220;two natures&#8221; show how he can die while being immortal?&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-38797\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/why-you-no-answer.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"449\" height=\"337\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/why-you-no-answer.jpg 550w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/why-you-no-answer-450x338.jpg 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 449px) 100vw, 449px\" \/><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Steve Hays,<a href=\"https:\/\/triablogue.blogspot.com\/2017\/04\/the-immortal-dies.html\"> &#8220;The Immortal Dies!&#8221;<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Catholic Answers: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=mzUH9E2FYtc\">Did God die on the cross?<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Matt Slick: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=WAqTN-UitJw\">Did God dies on the Cross?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a title=\"podcast 178 \u2013 Apologists on how God can die \u2013 Part 1\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-178-apologists-on-how-god-can-die-part-1\/\">podcast 178 \u2013 Apologists on how God can die \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/dualism\/\">Dualism and Mind<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/universa\/\">Universals<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><a title=\"podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-143-dr-timothy-pawls-in-defense-of-conciliar-christology-part-1\/\">podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-144-dr-timothy-pawls-defense-conciliar-christology-part-2\/\">podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Mark 15:37; Matthew 24:36; Luke 8:45; Luke 4:2; James 1:13; John 5:19; Luke 22:42; John 1:18, Mark 1:35; Revelation 3:12; Luke 11:20; John 14:10.<\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\/The_Age_of_Insignificance\/I_Dare_You\">I Dare You<\/a>&#8221; by Little Glass Men.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Can someone with two natures be essentially immortal and die?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":38796,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,15,6,75,4,14,33,57,77,76],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-38795","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-christology","category-complaints","category-divine-attributes","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-incarnation","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-roman-catholicism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38795","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38795"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38795\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38803,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38795\/revisions\/38803"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38796"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38795"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38795"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38795"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}