{"id":39420,"date":"2017-09-04T15:15:30","date_gmt":"2017-09-04T19:15:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=39420"},"modified":"2017-09-04T15:15:30","modified_gmt":"2017-09-04T19:15:30","slug":"podcast-192-review-of-sanderss-the-deep-things-of-god-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-192-review-of-sanderss-the-deep-things-of-god-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 192 &#8211; Review of Sanders&#8217;s The Deep Things of God &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3405\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-39420-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities192.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities192.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities192.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities192.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=39420-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities192.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities192.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><strong>Dr. Fred Sanders<\/strong> teaches in the <a href=\"http:\/\/academics.biola.edu\/torrey\/about\/people\/faculty\/fred_sanders\/\">Torrey Honors Institute at Biola University<\/a>. His book <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Deep-Things-God-Second-Everything\/dp\/1433556375\/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1504548470&amp;sr=1-2&amp;keywords=sanders%2C+the+deep+things+of+God\"><em>The Deep Things of God: How the Trinity Changes Everything<\/em><\/a>, has been recommended by some evangelical professors as a go-to book for evangelicals looking to deepen their understanding of &#8220;the&#8221; doctrine of the Trinity. In this episode, I start my two-part, in depth review of the book.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-39433\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sanders-deep-things2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"299\" height=\"461\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sanders-deep-things2.jpg 324w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sanders-deep-things2-292x450.jpg 292w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 299px) 100vw, 299px\" \/>As I read it, the book could be summarized as the following letter:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Dear Evangelical Christian,<\/p>\n<p>As you&#8217;re among the most spiritual of Christians, you already tacitly &#8220;know&#8221; everything you need to know about the Trinity. You&#8217;re as &#8220;Trinitarian&#8221; as you need to be. Congratulations! You can rest assured that the doctrine is as biblical as can be. Trust me &#8211; if you pick up the Bible, you&#8217;ll just see the Trinity <em>everywhere<\/em> in it. And you really don&#8217;t need to worry about any silly, distracting &#8220;logical&#8221; or &#8220;mathematical&#8221; difficulties, which wrongly presuppose that the Trinity is no more than a set of dry, abstract propositions, and not the very substance, size, shape, diameter, smell, texture, flavor, color, sheen, hypotenuse, center, circumference, substructure, glossy coating, chocolatey center, shine, and timbre of the Gospel. You just need to be reminded of how Trinitarian the gospel is, and how very <em>Trinitarian<\/em> your evangelical heritage is. Having been so reminded, you can again let any Trinitarian thoughts recede to the background of your mind, and you can carry on as before. Just try not to confuse together the &#8220;Persons&#8221; of the Trinity or slump down to some sort of sub-Trinitarian level of thinking. Keep in mind the differences between the Three, but <i>remember<\/i> that they&#8217;re the one God. If this doesn&#8217;t make sense to you, not to worry &#8211; C.S. Lewis has your back! God is one person, God is three persons &#8211; <i>no problem<\/i>. You see, claims which appear incoherent <i>to us<\/i>, may well seem coherent<i> to God<\/i>. There&#8217;s your defense, you beautiful Trinitarian, you!\u00a0 Celebrate your Trinitarian Evangelical heritage, and turn your thoughts often towards the Happy Land of the Trinity!<\/p>\n<p>Love,<\/p>\n<p>Fred<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That&#8217;s the thrust of the book, but there&#8217;s a lot more to say about it. In this episode I discuss the book&#8217;s <strong>presuppositions<\/strong>, and a <strong>crucial distinction<\/strong> when it comes to clear thinking about the Trinity: the use of &#8220;Trinity&#8221; as a singular referring term, which goes hand in hand with thinking the <strong>Trinity<\/strong> to be the one God, vs. the earlier use of &#8220;Trinity&#8221; as a plural referring term, referring to the <strong>triad<\/strong> of God (aka &#8220;the Father&#8221;), his Son, and his Spirit (or spirit), which is compatible with unitarian <em>and<\/em> trinitarian theologies. I also discuss the book&#8217;s <strong>main thesis<\/strong> that the Trinity is the gospel (and vice-versa), and note some crucial scholarly information that Dr. Sanders seems to deliberately leave out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Dr-Doctrines-Christian-Comix-Trinity\/dp\/0830822437\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1504549879&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=dr+doctrine%27s+christian+comic+trinity\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-39435\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/is-god-a-trio-sanders.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"308\" height=\"475\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/is-god-a-trio-sanders.jpg 308w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/is-god-a-trio-sanders-292x450.jpg 292w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 308px) 100vw, 308px\" \/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Deep-Things-God-Second-Everything\/dp\/1433556375\/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1504548470&amp;sr=1-2&amp;keywords=sanders%2C+the+deep+things+of+God\">The Deep Things of God: How the Trinity Changes Everything<\/a><\/em> (2nd ed.)<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.fredfredfred.com\/\"><strong>Dr. Sanders&#8217;s website<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li>Dr. Sanders&#8217;s blog <a href=\"http:\/\/scriptoriumdaily.com\/\"><em>Scriptorum Daily<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong><em>What is the Trinity?<\/em><\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/What-Trinity-Thinking-Father-Spirit\/dp\/154677260X\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1499363727&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=what+is+the+trinity\">Amazon<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.what-is-the-trinity.com\/order\/\">other sellers<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\">podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 126 \u2013 What is an evangelical? With Kermit Zarley\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-126-what-is-an-evangelical-with-kermit-zarley\/\">podcast 126 \u2013 What is an evangelical? With Kermit Zarley<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=evolution+of+my+views\">The evolution of my views on the Trinity<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=essential+to+the+gospel+according+to+luke\">What is essential to the gospel according to Luke [in his book <em>Acts<\/em>]?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>Isaac Watts, &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/lhim.org\/blog\/2007\/06\/26\/a-solemn-address-to-the-deity-by-isaac-watts\/\">A Solemn Address to the Deity<\/a>&#8220;<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 174 \u2013 The First Sirmian creed (351)\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-174-the-first-sirmian-creed-351\/\">podcast 174 \u2013 The First Sirmian creed (351)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 173 \u2013 Eusebius of Caesarea\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-173-eusebius-of-caesarea\/\">podcast 173 \u2013 Eusebius of Caesarea<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 172 \u2013 The Creed of the Long Lines (344)\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-172-the-creed-of-the-long-lines-344\/\">podcast 172 \u2013 The Creed of the Long Lines (344)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/william-ellery-channing-and-moses-stuart\/channing-vs-stuart-on-the-trinity-and-the-incarnation\/paperback\/product-1569078.html\"><em><strong>Channing vs. Stuart on the Trinity and the Incarnation<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li>John 17:1-3<\/li>\n<li>1 Corinthians 8:4-6<\/li>\n<li>Ephesians 1:3-14<\/li>\n<li>John 20:17<\/li>\n<li>Thomas McCall\u2019s <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/review-of-thomas-mccalls-which-trinity-whose-monotheism\/\"><em>Which Trinity? Whose Monotheism?<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 27 \u2013 Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God \u2013 Part 1\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-27-interview-with-dr-william-hasker-about-his-metaphysics-and-the-tripersonal-god-part-1\/\">podcast 27 \u2013 Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>&#8220;Trinity&#8221; in <a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/\"><em>The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/a><\/strong>, in <em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/trinity\/\">The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/a><\/em>, and in <a href=\"http:\/\/www.faculty.wwu.edu\/howardd\/Trinity.pdf\"><em>The Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/dealing-with-apparent-contradictions-part-14-james-andersons-paradox-in-christian-theology\/\">James Anderson\u2019s <em>Paradox in Christian Theology <\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li>Robert Letham&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Holy-Trinity-Scripture-History-Theology\/dp\/0875520006\/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1504547344&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=robert+letham%2C+the+holy+trinity\"><em>The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology, and Worship<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/how-trinity-theories-conflict-with-the-new-testament\/\"><strong>How Trinity theories conflict with the New Testament<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-146-jesus-exemplar-faith-new-testament\/\">podcast 146 \u2013 Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament <\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\"><strong>podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/21stcr.org\/\">21st Century Reformation<\/a><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Doctor_Turtle\/The_Double-Down_Two-Step\/Rotisserie_Graveyard\">Rotisserie Graveyard<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Doctor_Turtle\/\">Doctor Turtle<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;The Gospel is Trinitarian.&#8221; What does this mean, and is it both true and non-trivial?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":39433,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,16,6,14,9,57,13,3,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-39420","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-books","category-complaints","category-history","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-theologians","category-theories","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39420","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=39420"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39420\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":39449,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39420\/revisions\/39449"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/39433"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=39420"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=39420"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=39420"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}