{"id":39637,"date":"2017-10-23T20:03:44","date_gmt":"2017-10-24T00:03:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=39637"},"modified":"2017-10-23T20:05:15","modified_gmt":"2017-10-24T00:05:15","slug":"podcast-199-robert-hachs-the-passion-and-persuasion-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-199-robert-hachs-the-passion-and-persuasion-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 199 &#8211; Robert Hach\u2019s The Passion and Persuasion \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_8185\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-39637-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities199.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities199.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities199.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities199.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=39637-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities199.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities199.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-medium wp-image-39646\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Andrea_solario_crocifissione_1503_02-450x362.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"450\" height=\"362\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Andrea_solario_crocifissione_1503_02-450x362.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Andrea_solario_crocifissione_1503_02-768x618.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Andrea_solario_crocifissione_1503_02.jpg 903w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 450px) 100vw, 450px\" \/>According to retired professor of English Mr. Robert Hach, author of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Passion-Persuasion-Robert-Hach\/dp\/1453562931\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1508170949&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=hach+persuasion\"><em><strong>The Passion and Persuasion: A Biblical Deconstruction of the Evangelical Rhetoric of the Cross<\/strong><\/em><\/a>, despite the seriousness of our sin, God does <em>not<\/em> need to be reconciled to us. God, being perfectly loving, does not, as it were, hold our sins against us. He doesn&#8217;t hold our offenses up against us like a debt that must be fully paid.\u00a0 But <em>we<\/em> need to be reconciled to <em>him<\/em>. For this reason, Jesus agreed to die as a sin-sacrifice.<\/p>\n<p>And it is not moral law, but rather the law of Moses which requires the shedding of blood for forgiveness. Metaphorically,<strong> it was the law that was propitiated<\/strong>, not God. God doesn&#8217;t <em>need<\/em> propitiation, as he is perfectly merciful and is always inclined to forgive. This event was <em>like<\/em> the propitiation of a wrathful god, in that the effect is the same &#8211; reconciliation to a god &#8211; but not a wrathful or bloodthirsty one.<\/p>\n<p>Hach holds what I would call <strong>a persuasive or rhetorical theory of atonement<\/strong>, on which the purpose of Christ&#8217;s atonement is to publicly end the old covenant, by means of a once and for all, more valuable sacrifice. This is meant to persuade us of God&#8217;s love for, his mercy towards us, freeing us from the bounds of the Law, and overcoming our natural inhibition to approaching God based on our knowledge that we have offended him. God&#8217;s holiness does <em>not<\/em> require him to punish an innocent person; he is holy (unique, separate, above us), but is able to simply forgive.<\/p>\n<p>At bottom, Hach argues that mistaken theories of atonement are both causes and effects of <strong>mistaken theories<\/strong> about the character of God.<\/p>\n<p>Do you think this view best explains what the New Testament says about Jesus&#8217;s atonement? Why or why not?<\/p>\n<p>[spp-tweet tweet=&#8221;Does Jesus&#8217;s death propitiate God, or the Law?&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Passion-Persuasion-Robert-Hach\/dp\/1453562931\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1508170949&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=hach+persuasion\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-39605\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/the-passion-and-persuasion.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"312\" height=\"445\" \/><\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-198-robert-hachs-the-passion-and-persuasion-part-1\/\">podcast 198 \u2013 Robert Hach\u2019s The Passion and Persuasion \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Passion-Persuasion-Robert-Hach\/dp\/1453562931\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1508170949&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=hach+persuasion\"><em><strong>The Passion and Persuasion: A Biblical Deconstruction of the Evangelical Rhetoric of the Cross<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Possession-Persuasion-Rhetoric-Christian-Faith\/dp\/1401021271\/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1508171240&amp;sr=1-3\"><em>Possession and Persuasion: The Rhetoric of Christian Faith<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.thebyteshow.com\/RobertHach.html\">Interviews with Mr. Hach on The Byte Show<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/ereflector.blogspot.com\/\"><strong>Reflections of a Generic Christian<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/store.cdbaby.com\/cd\/wagnerhandpflug\"><strong>Wagner, Hand &amp; Pflug albut @ CDBaby<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Jesse_Spillane\/Art_of_Presentation\/Jesse_Spillane_-_Art_of_Presentation_-_03_Molten_Snow\">Molten Snow<\/a>&#8221; by Jesse Spillane.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Do we need reconciliation to God, while he doesn&#8217;t need reconciliation to us?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":39646,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[61,21,16,75,57,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-39637","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atonement","category-bible","category-books","category-divine-attributes","category-podcast","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39637","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=39637"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39637\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":39653,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39637\/revisions\/39653"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/39646"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=39637"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=39637"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=39637"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}