{"id":40324,"date":"2018-05-28T21:35:37","date_gmt":"2018-05-29T01:35:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=40324"},"modified":"2018-06-19T00:24:43","modified_gmt":"2018-06-19T04:24:43","slug":"podcast-229-buzzard-and-hurtado-on-god-and-jesus-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-229-buzzard-and-hurtado-on-god-and-jesus-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 229 \u2013 Buzzard and Hurtado on God and Jesus \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3849\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-40324-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities229.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities229.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities229.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities229.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=40324-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities229.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities229.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p>In this second part of their conversation (<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-228-buzzard-and-hurtado-on-god-and-jesus-part-1\/\">Part 1 here<\/a>), Mr. Buzzard and Dr. Hurtado focus on how <strong>New Testament authors apply what were originally texts about Yahweh to Jesus<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>What is the significance of this? Is this how they tell us, indirectly, that Jesus is Yahweh himself? Or is something else going on?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/larryhurtado.wordpress.com\/\"><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-40347\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.06.47-445x450.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"297\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.06.47-445x450.png 445w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.06.47.png 599w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 297px) 100vw, 297px\" \/><\/strong><\/a>They also discuss <strong>Dr. Hurtado&#8217;s ideas<\/strong> that the NT shows a dyadic worship pattern, a triadic structure of God-talk, and that its authors enfranchise Jesus within biblical discourse about Yahweh.<\/p>\n<p>As before, I comment here and there. Towards the end, <strong>I wonder what Dr. Hurtado thinks<\/strong> about this argument (discussed <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\">here<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/Challenge\">here<\/a>, and <a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-215-two-intelligent-responses-to-my-challenge\/\">here<\/a>).<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>God and Jesus differ.<\/li>\n<li>Things which differ are two (i.e. are not numerically identical)<\/li>\n<li>Therefore,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/jesus-god-and-an-inconsistent-triad\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">God and Jesus are two (not numerically identical).<\/a> (1, 2)<\/li>\n<li>For any x and y, x and y are the same god only if x and y are <em>not<\/em> two (i.e. <em>are<\/em> numerically identical).<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, God and Jesus are not the same god. (3,4)<\/li>\n<li>There is only one god.<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, either God is not a god, or Jesus is not a god. (5, 6)<\/li>\n<li>God is a god.<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, Jesus is not a god. (7,8)<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I believe that Sir Anthony would accept the argument as sound. It seems to me that he and Dr. Hurtado should agree that 1-3 is sound. Does Dr. Hurtado also accept 4, 6, and 8? If so, he would be committed to the truth of 9.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=2IJ9Mz7Lnkc\"><strong>Anthony Buzzard hosts Dr. Larry Hurtado: God, Jesus &amp; the Trinity<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC3LYPAGechgOusC7JmcQe_w\">Restoration Fellowship YouTube channel<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 45 \u2013 Sir Anthony Buzzard on Christian mistakes\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-45-sir-anthony-buzzard-on-christian-mistakes\/\">podcast 45 \u2013 Sir Anthony Buzzard on Christian mistakes<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 44 \u2013 The Spiritual Journey of Sir Anthony Buzzard\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-44-the-spiritual-journey-of-sir-anthony-buzzard\/\">podcast 44 \u2013 The Spiritual Journey of Sir Anthony Buzzard<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 194 \u2013 God: One Person or Three? Sanders vs. Buzzard debate\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-194-god-one-person-or-three-sanders-vs-buzzard-debate\/\">podcast 194 \u2013 God: One Person or Three? Sanders vs. Buzzard debate<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/larryhurtado.wordpress.com\/\"><strong>Larry Hurtado\u2019s blog<\/strong><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 150 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado\u2019s Destroyer of the gods \u2013 Part 2\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-150-dr-larry-hurtados-destroyer-of-the-gods-part-2\/\">podcast 150 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado\u2019s Destroyer of the gods \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 149 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado\u2019s Destroyer of the gods \u2013 Part 1\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-149-dr-larry-hurtados-destroyer-of-the-gods-part-1\/\">podcast 149 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado\u2019s Destroyer of the gods \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 100 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-100-dr-larry-hurtado-on-god-in-new-testament-theology\/\">podcast 100 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"podcast 99 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on early high christology\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-99-dr-larry-hurtado-on-early-high-christology\/\">podcast 99 \u2013 Dr. Larry Hurtado on early high christology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-11-tertullian-the-unitarian\/\">Tertullian the unitarian<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC3LYPAGechgOusC7JmcQe_w\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-40349 alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.04.39-450x308.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"348\" height=\"238\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.04.39-450x308.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.04.39-768x525.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2018-05-28-15.04.39.png 806w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 348px) 100vw, 348px\" \/><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/God-Jesus-Light-Christian-Dogma\/dp\/0967324939\/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1527553711&amp;sr=8-3&amp;keywords=the+god+of+jesus\"><em>The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/burieddeepblog.wordpress.com\/\">Buried Deep<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/trinity-an-anachronism-in-1st-3rd-centuries\/\">the concept of a triune God an anachronism in the first three centuries<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=aVznw_MQcas&amp;index=226&amp;t=26s&amp;list=PLMCt15e8gG-g7t7wo9MCq9KSDSsvGNcsm\">God and &#8220;God&#8221; in the New Testament<\/a><\/li>\n<li>&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/quicksearch\/?qs_version=NRSV&amp;quicksearch=%22God+the+Father%22&amp;begin=47&amp;end=73\">God the Father<\/a>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li>Romans 10:13; Joel 2:32; 1 Corinthians 1:3; Psalm 110:1-2; Philippians 2:11; Matthew 2:15; Hosea 11:1; Acts 13:47; Isaiah 42:6; Isaiah 49:6.<\/li>\n<li>This week&#8217;s thinking music &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Marco_Trovatello\/Not_At_All\/05_-_We_Are_Now\">We are now<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Marco_Trovatello\/\">Marco Trovatello<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When a NT author claims that Jesus fulfills an OT text which is about God, is that his way of saying that Jesus is God?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":40347,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,6,57,77,43,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-40324","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-complaints","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-unitarianism","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40324","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=40324"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40324\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":40355,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40324\/revisions\/40355"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/40347"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=40324"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=40324"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=40324"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}