{"id":41416,"date":"2019-06-17T21:19:48","date_gmt":"2019-06-18T01:19:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=41416"},"modified":"2019-06-18T08:24:14","modified_gmt":"2019-06-18T12:24:14","slug":"podcast-265-what-apologists-dont-understand-about-the-terms-being-and-person","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-265-what-apologists-dont-understand-about-the-terms-being-and-person\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 265 &#8211; What apologists don&#8217;t understand about the terms &#8220;being&#8221; and &#8220;Person&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_2439\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-41416-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities265.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities265.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities265.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities265.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=41416-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities265.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities265.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2019-06-15-at-10.24.39-AM-1-450x399.png\" alt=\"Dr. White offers Dr. Tuggy a Strawman trophy, on the foolish assumption that Tuggy ignores actual Trinity theories.\" class=\"wp-image-41422\" width=\"381\" height=\"338\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2019-06-15-at-10.24.39-AM-1-450x399.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2019-06-15-at-10.24.39-AM-1-768x680.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2019-06-15-at-10.24.39-AM-1-1024x907.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Screenshot-2019-06-15-at-10.24.39-AM-1.png 1330w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 381px) 100vw, 381px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this podcast I explain <strong>why I am not vulnerable to changes of &#8220;begging the question&#8221; <\/strong>or &#8220;assuming unitarianism&#8221; when it comes to the terms <strong>&#8220;being&#8221; and &#8220;Person&#8221;<\/strong> as used in Trinity theories. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In short, I let the trinitarian define his technical terms and go from there. When I&#8217;m pointing out that <em>some <\/em>Trinity theories <strong>collapse the Father and Son into one and the same being\/entity\/thing<\/strong>, I&#8217;m not using &#8220;being&#8221; in any technical trinitarian sense.  Nor do I assume that a &#8220;<strong>Person<\/strong>&#8221; must be a thing\/entity such as a self. To the contrary, some trinitarians say that a &#8220;Person&#8221; in their theory is a self, and others strongly deny it. Each theory must be met on its own ground. Of course, I do insist that in the New Testament, Father and Son are clearly two different selves.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Stevie-Wonder-award-783x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-41421\" width=\"266\" height=\"347\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Stevie-Wonder-award-783x1024.jpg 783w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Stevie-Wonder-award-344x450.jpg 344w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Stevie-Wonder-award-768x1005.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Stevie-Wonder-award.jpg 1100w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 266px) 100vw, 266px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I also award Dr. James White with the prestigious <strong>Stevie Wonder Trophy for Willful Blindness to Relevant Scholarship<\/strong>, and explain why Dr. White&#8217;s assumption of a false yet traditional narrative blinds him to the world of competing Trinity and Incarnation theories that analytic theologians have carefully delineated and evaluated. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The ball is in his court, when it comes to responsibly responding to <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"carefully crafted objections to his speculations (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/brown-vs-white-on-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">carefully crafted objections to his speculations<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>I also revisit a portion of my debate with Chris Date<\/strong>, and explain why we ran into some communication problems regarding the terms &#8220;being&#8221; and &#8220;Person.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.what-is-the-trinity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>What is the Trinity?<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=s6wK-lRZP-k\" target=\"_blank\">Clarifying Catholic Christologies<\/a><\/li><li> <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/brown-vs-white-on-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Brown vs. White on the Trinity<\/strong><\/a> <\/li><li>&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/4479697\/Constitution_Trinitarianism_An_Appraisal_Philosophy_and_Theology_25_1_129-62_2013\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Constitution Trinitarianism: An Appraisal (opens in a new tab)\">Constitution Trinitarianism: An Appraisal<\/a>&#8220;<\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Tertullian the Unitarian (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-11-tertullian-the-unitarian\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 11 &#8211; Tertullian the unitarian<\/a><\/li><li><strong>&#8220;<\/strong><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Trinity<\/strong><\/a><strong>,&#8221; <\/strong><em><strong>Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/strong><\/em><\/li><li>&#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\">Trinity<\/a>,&#8221; <em>Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/li><li>&#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"http:\/\/faculty.wwu.edu\/~howardd\/Trinity.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">Trinity<\/a>,&#8221; <em>Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/li><li>&#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Incarnation (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/incarnat\/\" target=\"_blank\">Incarnation<\/a>,&#8221; <em>Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"A formulation of Leibniz\u2019s Law \/ the Indiscernibility of Identicals (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/a-formulation-of-leibnizs-law-the-indiscernibility-of-identicals\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>A formulation of Leibniz\u2019s Law \/ the Indiscernibility of Identicals<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/apologetics-blind-spot-numerical-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity (opens in a new tab)\">the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity<\/a> <\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-144-dr-timothy-pawls-defense-conciliar-christology-part-2\/\">podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-143-dr-timothy-pawls-in-defense-of-conciliar-christology-part-1\/\">podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-182-whites-case-for-the-trinity-part-2\/\">podcast 182 \u2013 White\u2019s case for the Trinity \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-181-whites-case-for-the-trinity-part-1\/\">podcast 181 \u2013 White\u2019s case for the Trinity \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Debating Dale Starter Pack (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/debating-dale-starter-pack\/\" target=\"_blank\">Debating Dale Starter Pack<\/a><\/li><li> <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/philpapers.org\/s\/Dale%20Tuggy\" target=\"_blank\">Dale Tuggy @ PhilPapers<\/a><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/brown-vs-white-on-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\"><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/some-clarifications-for-dr-white\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Some clarifications for Dr. White<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/a> <\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=9qTR44_-i5g\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Dr. Oliver Crisp on Analytic Theology<\/strong><\/a> <\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/stand-clear.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-41426\" width=\"263\" height=\"177\"\/><figcaption><br \/><\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Debate - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brown (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Oi300_FvFz0&amp;t=4707s\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Debate &#8211; Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brown<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Debate - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date &quot;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&quot; - @ the portion of Mr. Date's rebuttal that I discuss here (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/c35_uFjEbx8?t=5359\" target=\"_blank\">Debate &#8211; Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date &#8220;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&#8221; &#8211; @ the portion of Mr. Date&#8217;s rebuttal that I discuss here<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"DL Wins the Finals, Dr. Buck Reports on the SBC Annual Meeting, Dale Tuggy Wins the Strawman Award @ the start of his &quot;critique&quot; (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/Z6_94LAp0ZE?t=3118\" target=\"_blank\">DL Wins the Finals, Dr. Buck Reports on the SBC Annual Meeting, Dale Tuggy Wins the Strawman Award @ the start of his debate &#8220;critique&#8221;<\/a> <\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"polite applause courtesy (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freesound.org\/people\/joedeshon\/sounds\/119021\/\" target=\"_blank\">polite applause courtesy<\/a> of <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"joedeshon (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freesound.org\/people\/joedeshon\/\" target=\"_blank\">joedeshon<\/a><\/li><li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is <strong>&#8220;<\/strong><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Long Live Blind Joe (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"http:\/\/dig.ccmixter.org\/files\/Robbero\/59218\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Long Live Blind Joe<\/strong><\/a><strong>&#8220;<\/strong> by Robbero.<\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Do I ignore &#8220;the&#8221; being\/Person distinction?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":41422,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,54,44,47,9,57,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-41416","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-debates","category-humor","category-papers","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41416","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=41416"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41416\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":41443,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41416\/revisions\/41443"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/41422"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=41416"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=41416"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=41416"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}