{"id":41822,"date":"2019-10-21T21:46:42","date_gmt":"2019-10-22T02:46:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=41822"},"modified":"2021-03-17T10:47:43","modified_gmt":"2021-03-17T15:47:43","slug":"podcast-274-mcmanus-on-oneness-pentecostal-christology","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-274-mcmanus-on-oneness-pentecostal-christology\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 274 &#8211; McManus on Oneness Pentecostal Christology"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3888\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-41822-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities274.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities274.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities274.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities274.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=41822-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities274.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities274.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/After_Titian_-_Christ_in_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane_RCIN_406592-1024x804.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-41824\" width=\"430\" height=\"337\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/After_Titian_-_Christ_in_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane_RCIN_406592-1024x804.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/After_Titian_-_Christ_in_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane_RCIN_406592-450x353.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/After_Titian_-_Christ_in_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane_RCIN_406592-768x603.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/After_Titian_-_Christ_in_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane_RCIN_406592.jpg 1301w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 430px) 100vw, 430px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode I interact with &#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"A Solution to Dale Tuggy\u2019s Argument against Oneness Pentecostal Christology (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/skylarmcmanus.com\/2019\/02\/04\/a-solution-to-dale-tuggys-argument-against-oneness-pentecostal-christology\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>A Solution to Dale Tuggy\u2019s Argument against Oneness Pentecostal Christology<\/strong><\/a>&#8221; &#8211; a blog post by Skylar McManus.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this piece he critically interacts with the following argument of mine (<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"from this blog post (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/an-argument-against-son-modalism\/\" target=\"_blank\">from this blog post<\/a>).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><strong>Suppose that modalism is true about the Son.<\/strong><\/li><li>Therefore, either the Son is <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=11\" target=\"_blank\">identical to<\/a> God, or the Son is a mode of God. (2)<\/li><li>The Son is identical to God only if whatever is true of God is true of the Son, and vice versa.<\/li><li>Some things are true of God which are not true of the Son, and vice versa.<\/li><li>Therefore the Son is not identical to God. (3,4)<\/li><li>If the Son is a mode of God, then the Son at no time has a loving interpersonal relationship with God.<\/li><li>The Son has had a loving interpersonal relationship with God.<\/li><li>Therefore, the Son is not a mode of God. (6,7)<\/li><li><strong>Therefore, modalism about the Son is false<\/strong>; the Son is not a mode of God. (2,5,8)<\/li><\/ol>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/read-it-and-weep.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-41838\" width=\"266\" height=\"155\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/read-it-and-weep.jpg 524w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/read-it-and-weep-450x262.jpg 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 266px) 100vw, 266px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>He suggests that<\/strong> a Oneness Pentecostal, who is committed to 1 and 2, might sensibly escape the unwanted conclusion here (9) by denying premise 4. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That&#8217;s a bold move! But can 4 sensibly be denied?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In arguing for this McManus appeals to the key move made by analytic theologian Dr. Timothy Pawl in defense of the coherence of a two-natures doctrine about Christ. So along the way I explain <strong>some problems I have with Pawl&#8217;s take on incarnation<\/strong>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/navi-lady-2-228x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-41847\" width=\"67\" height=\"303\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/navi-lady-2-100x450.jpg 100w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/navi-lady-2.jpg 284w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 67px) 100vw, 67px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Skylar McManus's blog Thought Life (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/skylarmcmanus.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Skylar McManus&#8217;s blog Thought Life<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/skylarmcmanus.com\/2019\/02\/04\/a-solution-to-dale-tuggys-argument-against-oneness-pentecostal-christology\/\" target=\"_blank\">A Solution to Dale Tuggy\u2019s Argument against Oneness Pentecostal Christology<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Classic Cars and Christology: Two Models (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/skylarmcmanus.com\/2018\/12\/03\/classic-cars-christology\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Classic Cars and Christology: Two Models<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-143-dr-timothy-pawls-in-defense-of-conciliar-christology-part-1\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-144-dr-timothy-pawls-defense-conciliar-christology-part-2\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"An argument against Son-modalism (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/an-argument-against-son-modalism\/\" target=\"_blank\">An argument against Son-modalism<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"One-self Trinity theories (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/one-self-trinity-theories-dale\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>One-self Trinity theories<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"No can eat: a Pawlian parable (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/no-can-eat\/\" target=\"_blank\">No can eat: a Pawlian parable<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 227 \u2013 Who Should Christians Worship? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-227-who-should-christians-worship\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 227 \u2013 Who Should Christians Worship?<\/a><\/li><li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Self-Decieved (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.freemusicarchive.org\/music\/XTaKeRuX\/Demonized\/Self-Decieved\" target=\"_blank\">Self-Decieved<\/a>&#8221; by <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"XTaKeRuX (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.freemusicarchive.org\/music\/XTaKeRuX\" target=\"_blank\">XTaKeRuX<\/a>.<\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Can a Christian sensibly say that Jesus is the Father incarnate?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":41824,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"default","neve_meta_container":"default","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"off","neve_meta_content_width":70,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"off","neve_meta_disable_footer":"off","neve_meta_disable_title":"off","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,15,33,8,5,92,47,72,9,57,3,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-41822","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-christology","category-incarnation","category-linkage","category-modalism","category-oneness","category-papers","category-pentecostalism","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-theories","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41822","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=41822"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41822\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43155,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41822\/revisions\/43155"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/41824"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=41822"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=41822"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=41822"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}