{"id":42114,"date":"2020-01-20T12:44:14","date_gmt":"2020-01-20T18:44:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=42114"},"modified":"2020-01-20T12:44:19","modified_gmt":"2020-01-20T18:44:19","slug":"podcast-282-does-the-bible-teach-that-god-is-a-trinity-cole-tuggy-dialogue-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-282-does-the-bible-teach-that-god-is-a-trinity-cole-tuggy-dialogue-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 282 &#8211; Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3776\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-42114-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities282.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities282.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities282.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities282.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=42114-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities282.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities282.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"474\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/first-episode-image-1024x474.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42117\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/first-episode-image-1024x474.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/first-episode-image-450x208.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/first-episode-image-768x356.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/first-episode-image.png 1363w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this first part of my dialogue with pastor Sean Cole, we introduce ourselves, offer brief <strong>opening statements<\/strong>, and then we discuss which Trinity theory he thinks is taught in scripture, and how we understand the famous <strong>first chapter of the gospel according to John<\/strong>.  In his opening statement Dr. Cole essentially expresses some core convictions of catholic traditions about the Father, Son, and Spirit, and appeals to the famous &#8220;Great Commission&#8221; passage at the end of Matthew. I base my opening case on <strong>four indisputable facts about the New Testament<\/strong> &#8211; that these facts best fit my thesis that the New Testament authors are unitarians, that is, Christians who think that the one God is Father alone, not the Trinity. These facts are:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>No word or phrase in the New Testament was then understood to refer to a truine\/tripersonal God.<\/li><li>In the New Testament &#8220;God&#8221; almost always means the Father &#8211; never the Trinity and rarely if ever the Son or Spirit.<\/li><li>The New Testament pattern of worship: the Father (aka God) is the main and ultimate object of worship. The exalted Son is also worshiped, which glorifies God. (Philippians 2:11) Neither the Trinity nor God&#8217;s spirit are ever taught to be or portrayed as an object of worship.<\/li><li>The New Testament contains many statements which imply that the Son has limits which are incompatible with his being fully divine. E.g. that he was begotten in his mother, died, didn&#8217;t know the day or hour of his future return, he has a god over him, he gets his mission, message, and power from God. <\/li><\/ol>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>If you accept some triune-God theory, how do <em>you <\/em>explain these four facts?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Next week: the rest of my dialogue with Dr. Cole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Marlon-Wilson-1024x574.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42118\" width=\"523\" height=\"292\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Marlon-Wilson-1024x574.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Marlon-Wilson-450x252.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Marlon-Wilson.jpg 1284w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 523px) 100vw, 523px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Marlon Wilson's The Gospel Truth show (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC-DJyBJlGeHvXfUXAojqL7w\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Marlon Wilson&#8217;s The Gospel Truth show<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"The Gospel Truth episode 64: Does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=rgJO8v2nIVQ\" target=\"_blank\">The Gospel Truth episode 64: Does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity?<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Dr. Sean Cole homepage (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.seancole.net\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Dr. Sean Cole homepage<\/strong><\/a>, his <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.seancole.net\/audio-podcast\" target=\"_blank\">podcast &#8220;Understanding Christianity&#8221;<\/a><\/li><li><em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"What is the Trinity? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.what-is-the-trinity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>What is the Trinity?<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"three-self Trinity theories (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#ThrSel\" target=\"_blank\">three-self Trinity theories<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Trinity to One - An Evangelical's Journey - Dale Tuggy and J. Dan Gill (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=iQ0IcCSWkO8&amp;t=176s\" target=\"_blank\">T<strong>rinity to One &#8211; An Evangelical&#8217;s Journey &#8211; Dale Tuggy and J. Dan Gill<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-2-the-athanasian-creed\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-260-how-to-argue-that-the-bible-is-trinitarian\/\">podcast 260 \u2013 How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-248-how-trinity-theories-conflict-with-the-bible\/\"><strong>podcast 248 \u2013 How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-276-how-is-the-trinity-central-to-the-gospel-or-how-the-gospel-coalition-prioritizes-speculation-over-scripture\/\">podcast 276 \u2013 How is the Trinity Central to the Gospel? Or: How The Gospel Coalition Prioritizes Speculation over Scripture<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/apologetics-blind-spot-numerical-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\">the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\"><strong>podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-224-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-1-god-and-god-in-the-bible\/\">podcast 224 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 \u2013 God and \u201cGod\u201d in the Bible<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-227-who-should-christians-worship\/\">podcast 227 \u2013 Who Should Christians Worship?<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies! (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"&quot;Divine Deception and Monotheism,&quot; Journal of Analytic Theology 2, 186-209, 2014.? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/23869124\/_Divine_Deception_and_Monotheism_Journal_of_Analytic_Theology_2_186-209_2014\" target=\"_blank\">&#8220;Divine Deception and Monotheism,&#8221; Journal of Analytic Theology 2, 186-209, 2014.<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"podcast 259 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 2? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-259-who-is-the-one-creator-part-2\/?---part-2%2F\" target=\"_blank\">podcast 259 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li>Matthew 28:16-20; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; John 5:43-44; John 8:54; Acts 7:55-56; 1 Timothy 2:5, Ephesians 4:5-6; John 1; Proverbs 8:22-36; Sirach 24:1-23; Psalm 33:6; Wisdom 18:14-16; Baruch 3:37-4:1;  John 8:40; John 17:3; John 20:28; John 1:18; 1 Corinthians 15:28.<\/li><li>This week&#8217;s thinking music &#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Mt. Fuji (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Timecrawler_82\/Osaka_Lights\/Mt_Fuji_1433\" target=\"_blank\">Mt. Fuji<\/a>&#8221;\u00a0by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Timecrawler_82\/\">Timecrawler 82<\/a>.<\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Part 1 of a dialogue from December 2019, including opening brief opening statements and a discussion of John 1.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":42117,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,15,54,57,13,3,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-42114","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-christology","category-debates","category-podcast","category-theologians","category-theories","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42114","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=42114"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42114\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":42124,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42114\/revisions\/42124"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/42117"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=42114"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=42114"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=42114"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}