{"id":42546,"date":"2020-07-13T22:06:00","date_gmt":"2020-07-14T03:06:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=42546"},"modified":"2020-07-13T22:06:05","modified_gmt":"2020-07-14T03:06:05","slug":"podcast-300-does-the-new-testament-teach-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-300-does-the-new-testament-teach-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 300 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? \u2013 with Dale Glover \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_4722\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-42546-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities300.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities300.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities300.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities300.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=42546-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities300.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities300.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Duccio_di_Buoninsegna_-_Pentecost_-_WGA06739.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42549\" width=\"459\" height=\"305\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Duccio_di_Buoninsegna_-_Pentecost_-_WGA06739.jpg 790w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Duccio_di_Buoninsegna_-_Pentecost_-_WGA06739-450x299.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Duccio_di_Buoninsegna_-_Pentecost_-_WGA06739-768x510.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 459px) 100vw, 459px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this second part of my conversation with apologist Dale Glover, I object to the argument he presented in part 1 (see below).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Topics discussed include <\/strong>how to understand &#8220;<strong>the Holy Spirit<\/strong>&#8221; in the Bible, why we can&#8217;t (I argue) treat the New Testament like those authors treat the Old Testament, the significance of <strong>personal pronouns<\/strong> when it comes to interpretation, the fact that there is <strong>no biblical passage<\/strong> which clearly teaches that God is tripersonal, Yahweh identifying features, Yahweh distinguishing features, divine <strong>immortality <\/strong>and how a divine Jesus could possibly die, and what it is to die.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dale Glover&#8217;s argument that something like Craig&#8217;s &#8220;Trinity Monotheism&#8221; is implied by the New Testament is:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>There is only one (\u201cechad\u201d not \u201cyachid\u201d) God.\u00a0<\/li><li>In the Bible God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are <strong>distinct individuals\/persons (standing in interpersonal \u201cI-THOU\u201d relations <\/strong>to each other).<\/li><li>According to the Bible, anything which has one or more of the <strong>Yahweh-identifying features<\/strong> is, minimally, a proper, distinctive, and essential part of God\/Yahweh.\u00a0<\/li><li>God the Father, Jesus &amp; the Holy Spirit have ONE OR MORE of the Yahweh-identifying features.<\/li><li>The <strong>Trinity Monotheism<\/strong> model entails that God the Father, Jesus and the H.S. are distinct individual persons subsisting within one God named Yahweh proper (i.e. one thing\/Being\/immaterial or spiritual soul) \u2013 a model that is at least consistent with the biblical data.<\/li><li>\u00a0Therefore, there are three distinct individuals\/persons named God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit who are (minimally) <strong>proper, distinctive and essential parts of the one God<\/strong>\/Yahweh (i.e. Trinity Monotheism model affirmed in Jewish language as opposed to Greek philosophical terminology of the later Creeds). This is consistent with the Biblical Data.<\/li><\/ol>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What&#8217;s your reaction to the whole discussion? Which side made the stronger case, and why? <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Justin_Trudeau_June_13_2017-802x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42550\" width=\"352\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Justin_Trudeau_June_13_2017-802x1024.jpg 802w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Justin_Trudeau_June_13_2017-352x450.jpg 352w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Justin_Trudeau_June_13_2017-768x981.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Justin_Trudeau_June_13_2017.jpg 949w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 352px) 100vw, 352px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/realseekerministries.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Real Seeker Ministries<\/strong><\/a> (<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/realseekerministries.wordpress.com\/2020\/06\/30\/is-trinity-monotheism-biblically-consistent-discussing-the-new-testament-with-dr-dale-tuggy\/\" target=\"_blank\">this discussion<\/a>)<\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-13-on-bauckhams-bargain\/\">podcast 13 \u2013 On Bauckham\u2019s Bargain<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-214-has-bauckham-clarified-his-divine-identity-theory-part-2\/\">podcast 214 \u2013 Has Bauckham clarified his \u201cdivine identity\u201d theory? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-213-has-bauckham-clarified-his-divine-identity-theory-part-1\/\">podcast 213 \u2013 Has Bauckham clarified his \u201cdivine identity\u201d theory? \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-259-who-is-the-one-creator-part-2\/\">podcast 259 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-258-who-is-the-one-creator-part-1\/\">podcast 258 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-107-dr-robert-m-bowman-jr-on-triadic-new-testament-passages-part-1\/\">podcast 107 \u2013 Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages \u2013 part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-108-dr-robert-m-bowman-jr-on-triadic-new-testament-passages-part-2\/\">podcast 108 \u2013 Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages \u2013 part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-26-pastor-sean-finnegan-on-the-holy-spirit-part-2\/\">podcast 26 \u2013 Pastor Sean Finnegan on \u201cthe Holy Spirit\u201d \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-25-pastor-sean-finnegan-about-the-holy-spirit-part-1\/\"><strong>podcast 25 \u2013 Pastor Sean Finnegan on \u201cthe Holy Spirit\u201d \u2013 Part 1<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.thinkingaboutreligion.org\/s1-e9-benjamin-sommer-on-gods-bodies\/\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Benjamin Sommer on God\u2019s Bodies on the Old Testament<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\">podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\"><strong>podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/strong><\/a><\/li><li><strong>On arguments from pronouns see: &#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/journals.tdl.org\/jat\/index.php\/jat\/article\/download\/jat.2014-1.030004192024a\/232\" target=\"_blank\">Divine Deception and Monotheism,&#8221; <em>Journal of Analytic Theolog<\/em><\/a><em>y<\/em><\/strong><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-291-from-one-god-to-two-gods-to-three-gods-john-1-and-early-christian-theologies\/\">odcast 291 \u2013 From one God to two gods to three \u201cGods\u201d \u2013 John 1 and early Christian theologies<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-144-dr-timothy-pawls-defense-conciliar-christology-part-2\/\">podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-143-dr-timothy-pawls-in-defense-of-conciliar-christology-part-1\/\">podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-73-is-proverbs-8-about-jesus-part-3\/\">podcast 73 \u2013 Is Proverbs 8 about Jesus? Part 3<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-72-is-proverbs-8-about-jesus-part-2\/\">podcast 72 \u2013 Is Proverbs 8 about Jesus? Part 2<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-71-proverbs-8-jesus-part-1\/\">podcast 71 \u2013 Is Proverbs 8 about Jesus? Part 1<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-70-the-one-god-and-his-son-according-to-john\/\">podcast 70 \u2013 The one God and his Son according to John<\/a><\/li><li><strong>On Plato&#8217;s <em>Timaeus <\/em>on it&#8217;s influence on the Logos theologians, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.oxfordhandbooks.com\/view\/10.1093\/oxfordhb\/9780199935314.001.0001\/oxfordhb-9780199935314-e-27\" target=\"_blank\">see this piece<\/a><\/strong><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-248-how-trinity-theories-conflict-with-the-bible\/\">podcast 248 \u2013 How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible<\/a><\/li><li>On historical-critical interpretation undermining traditional trinitarian exegesis: <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-252-fred-sanders-on-seeing-the-trinity-in-scripture-and-his-secret\/\">podcast 252 \u2013 Fred Sanders on Seeing the Trinity in Scripture, and his Secret<\/a>t<\/li><li>Matthew 3:15-17, Acts 2:1-4, Jesus as spirit refs;  Ephesians 4:1-6; 2 Corinthians 13:13; John 1; Colossians 1; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Acts 17:30-31; Daniel 7:13-14; Numbers 21:4-9; 1 Timothy 6:13-17; 1 Timothy 1:17; Romans 1:23; Proverbs 8:22-31; John 1:1, John 1:14-18; Baruch 3:9-37; Sirach 24:1-4; Mark 12:28-34; John 6:4; John 8:54.<\/li><li>This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Unheard_Music_Concepts\/The_Lasso_of_Time\/Synchronicity\" target=\"_blank\">Synchronicity<\/a>&#8221; by Unheard Music Concepts.<\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is God&#8217;s spirit in the New Testament supposed to be a self in addition to God and his Son? <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":42549,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"off","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,91,4,55,38,9,57,77,3,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-42546","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-creation","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-holy-spirit","category-monotheism","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-theories","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42546","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=42546"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42546\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":42558,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42546\/revisions\/42558"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/42549"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=42546"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=42546"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=42546"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}