{"id":43002,"date":"2021-01-11T16:17:33","date_gmt":"2021-01-11T22:17:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43002"},"modified":"2021-01-11T16:17:40","modified_gmt":"2021-01-11T22:17:40","slug":"podcast-315-review-of-ryken-and-lefebvre-our-triune-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-315-review-of-ryken-and-lefebvre-our-triune-god\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 315 &#8211; Review of Ryken and LeFebvre, Our Triune God"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7532\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43002-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities315.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities315.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities315.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities315.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43002-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities315.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities315.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode I ask whether this short, <strong>introductory book on the Trinity, <em><a aria-label=\"Our Triune God: Living in the Love of the Three-in-One (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Our-Triune-God-Three-One\/dp\/1433519879\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Our Triune God: Living in the Love of the Three-in-One<\/a><\/em> <\/strong>by Philip Ryken and Michael LeFebvre, answers the ten (or nine) basic questions we explored <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-314-10-fundamental-questions-about-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"last time (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">last time<\/a>.<strong> I score the book based on<\/strong> how many are clearly answered, as opposed to either being ignored or answered in an utterly confusing fashion. One of this last sort is the question of just what this doctrine is. Ryken and LeFebvre write,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/our-triune-god-cover.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43003\" width=\"323\" height=\"361\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/our-triune-god-cover.jpg 441w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/our-triune-god-cover-403x450.jpg 403w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 323px) 100vw, 323px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>For all its complexity, the biblical doctrine of the Trinity can be stated in seven simple propositions:  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>1. God the Father is God.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>2. God the Son is God.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>3. God the Holy Spirit is God.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>4. The Father is not the Son.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>5. The Son is not the Spirit.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>6. The Spirit is not the Father.  <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>7. Nevertheless, there is only one God.  <\/em> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I explain why <strong>this list is <em>not <\/em>enough to clarify<\/strong> what &#8220;the doctrine of the Trinity&#8221; is, and how their presentation overall leaves the careful reader baffled about what it is supposed to be. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We also explore, among other issues, <strong>how they try to show how the New Testament teaches<\/strong> a triune God. Along the way I discuss the &#8220;see three&#8221; fallacy and what I call the myth of the three eternal amigos. <\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.wheaton.edu\/about-wheaton\/leadership\/president-ryken\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Philip Ryken (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Philip Ryken<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Michael LeFebvre (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.crossway.org\/authors\/michael-lefebvre\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Michael LeFebvre<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Luke 3:21-22; Ephesians 1:1-14<strong>;<\/strong> Acts 7:59-60; John 14:22-23; John 17:1-3; 1 John 1:3; Luke 9:28-36; Exodus 34:30-35 ; 2 Peter 1:16-18; Luke 10:21; Luke 1:41; Matthew 16:13-20.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-314-10-fundamental-questions-about-the-trinity\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 314 \u2013 10 Fundamental Questions about the Trinity<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-302-the-stages-of-trinitarian-commitment\/\">podcast 302 \u2013 The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-260-how-to-argue-that-the-bible-is-trinitarian\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 260 \u2013 How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.newscientist.com\/article\/2078933-squid-filmed-using-their-ink-clouds-as-smokescreen-to-catch-prey\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/squirting-squid-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43004\" width=\"492\" height=\"252\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/squirting-squid-1.jpg 765w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/squirting-squid-1-450x231.jpg 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 492px) 100vw, 492px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/god-and-his-son-the-logic-of-the-new-testament\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"God and his Son: the logic of the New Testament (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">God and his Son: the logic of the New Testament<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>\u201cTrinity\u201d (by analytic theologians): <\/strong><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.iep.utm.edu\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"ek-link\">Baber<\/a><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.faculty.wwu.edu\/howardd\/Trinity.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"ek-link\">, Howard-Snyder<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"ek-link\">Tuggy<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=evolution+of+my+views+on+the+trinity\" target=\"_blank\">the evolution of my views on the Trinity<\/a> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-5-anglicans-defending-athanasius\/\">podcast 5 \u2013 Anglicans Defending \u201cAthanasius\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 4 \u2013 Anglicans vs. \u201cAthanasius\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-2-the-athanasian-creed\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-standard-opening-move\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Standard Opening Move (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Standard Opening Move<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#Mys\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"negative mysterianism (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">negative mysterianism<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"What is modalism? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/what-is-modalism\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is modalism?<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-253-the-apostle-paul-a-unitarian\/\">podcast 253 \u2013 The Apostle Paul a Unitarian<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-26-pastor-sean-finnegan-on-the-holy-spirit-part-2\/\">podcast 26 \u2013 Pastor Sean Finnegan on \u201cthe Holy Spirit\u201d \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/640px-Mural_-_Jesus_Baptism.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43010\" width=\"513\" height=\"342\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/640px-Mural_-_Jesus_Baptism.jpg 640w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/640px-Mural_-_Jesus_Baptism-450x300.jpg 450w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 513px) 100vw, 513px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-25-pastor-sean-finnegan-about-the-holy-spirit-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 25 \u2013 Pastor Sean Finnegan on \u201cthe Holy Spirit\u201d \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-227-who-should-christians-worship\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 227 \u2013 Who Should Christians Worship?<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\">podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/a> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"a four-self Trinity theoly (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#FuncPer\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">a four-self Trinity theo<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#FuncPer\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"a four-self Trinity theoly (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">r<\/a><a aria-label=\"a four-self Trinity theoly (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#FuncPer\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">y<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-190-what-is-the-trinity-a-triad-of-book-reviews\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 190 \u2013 What is the Trinity? A triad of book reviews (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 190 \u2013 What is the Trinity? A triad of book reviews<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-277-was-christ-tempted-in-every-way\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 277 \u2013 Was Christ tempted in every way?<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-218-dr-jerry-walls-on-roman-catholic-and-christian-foundational-claims\/\">podcast 218 \u2013 Dr. Jerry Walls on Roman Catholic and Christian Foundational Claims<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"&quot;When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?&quot; (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/when-and-how-in-the-history-of-theology-did-the-triune-god-replace-the-father-as-the-only-true-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?&#8221;<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/dig.ccmixter.org\/files\/admiralbob77\/62876\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"High Above the Darkness (My Star) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">High Above the Darkness (My Star)<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/dig.ccmixter.org\/people\/admiralbob77\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Admiral Bob (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Admiral Bob<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;For all its complexity, the biblical doctrine of the Trinity can be stated in seven simple propositions.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43004,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,16,15,58,14,55,20,57,13,3,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43002","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-creeds","category-history","category-holy-spirit","category-mystery","category-podcast","category-theologians","category-theories","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43002","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43002"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43002\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43011,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43002\/revisions\/43011"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43004"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43002"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43002"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43002"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}