{"id":43013,"date":"2021-01-18T19:48:23","date_gmt":"2021-01-19T01:48:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43013"},"modified":"2021-01-18T19:48:30","modified_gmt":"2021-01-19T01:48:30","slug":"podcast-316-review-of-papandrea-trinity-101-father-son-holy-spirit","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-316-review-of-papandrea-trinity-101-father-son-holy-spirit\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 316 &#8211; Review of Papandrea, Trinity 101: Father, Son, Holy Spirit"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9942\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43013-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities316.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities316.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities316.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities316.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43013-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities316.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities316.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/trinity-101.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43016\" width=\"331\" height=\"476\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/trinity-101.jpg 353w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/trinity-101-313x450.jpg 313w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 331px) 100vw, 331px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode I review this <a aria-label=\"introductory Trinity book (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.liguori.org\/trinity-101.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">introductory Trinity book<\/a> by <a href=\"https:\/\/jimpapandrea.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. James Papandrea (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. James Papandrea<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As with <a aria-label=\"the previous episode (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-315-review-of-ryken-and-lefebvre-our-triune-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the previous episode<\/a> in this series, I&#8217;ll ask <strong>how many of these <a aria-label=\"fundamental questions (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-314-10-fundamental-questions-about-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">fundamental questions<\/a><\/strong> the book clearly answers:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>What is \u201cthe doctrine of the Trinity\u201d?<\/li><li>Why is this doctrine not, as some allege, tritheism?<\/li><li>Why is this doctrine not, as some allege, incoherent?<\/li><li>Is this doctrine consistent with the common conception of God as a mighty, unique, and completely perfect self?<\/li><li>When, if ever, did God reveal this doctrine?&nbsp;<\/li><li>If this doctrine <em>is<\/em> \u201cin\u201d the Bible, how can one see this?<\/li><li>If this doctrine <em>is not<\/em> in the Bible, why should Bible-oriented Protestants accept it?<\/li><li>How does this doctrine relate to the so-called \u201cecumenical\u201d councils?<\/li><li>Why have some Christians opposed any Trinity doctrine?<\/li><li>Is this doctrine, as the \u201cAthanasian\u201d creed asserts, something which one must believe in order to be saved?<\/li><\/ol>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It seemed to me that a couple of passages in this book are <strong>key for understanding<\/strong> this author&#8217;s views. One is:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>At the end of the day, we have to admit that while we may be able to see the Trinity in the text of Scripture, the <em>doctrine <\/em>of the Trinity is not in Scripture <em>per se<\/em>, but is the result of the Church&#8217;s interpretation of Scripture.<\/p><cite>p. 60<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another is:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>A [threefold] thing is either one thing with three parts, or three things that have some common relationship, but nothing that we can observe is [like the Trinity] truly both one and three at the same time.<\/p><cite>pp. 128-29<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How many of the above questions does this book answer? And, are the answers correct?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-315-review-of-ryken-and-lefebvre-our-triune-god\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 315 \u2013 Review of Ryken and LeFebvre, <em>Our Triune God<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/jimpapandrea.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Papandrea's home page (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Dr. Papandrea&#8217;s home page<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.liguori.org\/trinity-101.html\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Trinity 101: Father, Son, Holy Spirit (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Trinity 101: Father, Son, Holy Spirit<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-248-how-trinity-theories-conflict-with-the-bible\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 248 \u2013 How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rtmullins.com\/podcast\/episode\/48b8cdb3\/episode-29-classical-theism-part-1-with-thomas-williams\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Reluctant Theologian Podcast Episode 29, Classical Theism Part 1 with Thomas Williams (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>The Reluctant Theologian Podcast Episode 29, Classical Theism Part 1 with Thomas Williams<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"The Reluctant Theologian Podcast Episode 30, Objections to Classical Theism, Part 2 with Thomas Williams (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.rtmullins.com\/podcast\/episode\/dfe19385\/episode-30-objections-to-classical-theism-part-2-with-thomas-williams\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Reluctant Theologian Podcast Episode 30, Objections to Classical Theism, Part 2 with Thomas Williams<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-227-who-should-christians-worship\/\">podcast 227 \u2013 Who Should Christians Worship?<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43023\" width=\"405\" height=\"405\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian.jpg 750w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-450x450.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 405px) 100vw, 405px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/archive.org\/details\/treatiseofnovati00mooruoft\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Treatise of Novatian, On the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Treatise of Novatian, <em>On the Trinity<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/s6wK-lRZP-k\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Clarifying Catholic Christologies (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Clarifying Catholic Christologies<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/a>  (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/44018047\/The_Unfinished_Business_of_the_Reformation\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"book chapter version (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">book chapter version<\/a>)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a aria-label=\"Is Jesus Human and not Divine? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Jesus-Divine-Essential-Christian-Debates\/dp\/1946971804\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Is Jesus Human and not Divine?<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/hans-kung-on-new-testament-theology\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Catholic Theologian Hans K\u00fcng on New Testament theology (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Catholic Theologian Hans K\u00fcng on New Testament theology<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-286-is-the-trinity-essential-three-views\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 286 \u2013 Is the Trinity Essential? \u2013 Three Views (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 286 \u2013 Is the Trinity Essential? \u2013 Three Views<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/iep.utm.edu\/reli-div\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"&quot;Theories of Religious Diversity,&quot; Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;Theories of Religious Diversity,&#8221; <em>Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/0Hnlw4iMhE8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-11-tertullian-the-unitarian\/\">podcast 11 \u2013 Tertullian the unitarian<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/4479687\/_On_Positive_Mysterianism_International_Journal_for_Philosophy_of_Religion_69_3_205_26_2011\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"&quot;On Positive Mysterianism&quot; (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;On Positive Mysterianism&#8221;<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.what-is-the-trinity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"What is the Trinity? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is the Trinity?<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-190-what-is-the-trinity-a-triad-of-book-reviews\/\">podcast 190 \u2013 What is the Trinity? A triad of book reviews<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a aria-label=\"Decade Of Upsets (remaster) (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Doctor_Turtle\/Jonahs_Message_for_New_York\/decade_of_upsets_remaster\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Decade Of Upsets (remaster)<\/a>&#8221; by <a aria-label=\" (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Doctor_Turtle\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Doctor Turtle<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;&#8230;the doctrine of the Trinity is not in Scripture per se, but is the result of the Church&#8217;s interpretation of Scripture.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43017,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,16,15,58,75,20,57,76,3,43,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43013","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-creeds","category-divine-attributes","category-mystery","category-podcast","category-roman-catholicism","category-theories","category-unitarianism","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43013","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43013"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43013\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43027,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43013\/revisions\/43027"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43017"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43013"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43013"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43013"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}