{"id":43037,"date":"2021-02-01T20:32:00","date_gmt":"2021-02-02T02:32:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43037"},"modified":"2021-02-01T20:37:40","modified_gmt":"2021-02-02T02:37:40","slug":"podcast-317-debate-with-rogers-does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-317-debate-with-rogers-does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 317 &#8211; Debate with Rogers &#8211; Does Mark teach that Jesus is God? &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7056\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43037-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities317.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities317.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities317.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities317.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43037-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities317.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities317.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-1-1024x527.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43042\" width=\"507\" height=\"261\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-1-1024x527.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-1-450x232.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-1-768x395.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-1.png 1267w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 507px) 100vw, 507px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode <strong>apologist Anthony Rogers lays out his case <\/strong>that the gospel according to Mark asserts Jesus to be the one true God. Not only does it call Jesus <strong>&#8220;the Lord,&#8221;<\/strong> it presents Jesus as doing miracles which sort of resemble some of the miracles involved in the famous Old Testament Exodus from Egypt. Thus, any reader should know that this is <strong>Yahweh himself<\/strong>, who has come as a man, doing miracles only Yahweh himself could do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then, I give <strong>my opening statement, emphasizing that the clear and explicit thesis <\/strong>of this book is <em>not <\/em>that Jesus is God, but rather <strong>that Jesus is God&#8217;s Christ <\/strong>(a.k.a. Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man, King of the Jews, Son of David). I also argue that what Mark <em>doesn&#8217;t<\/em> say is very important evidence, and point out that Rogers&#8217;s reading depends on a fulfillment fallacy relating to chapter 1.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Next, we give<strong> longer, then shorter rebuttals<\/strong>, which I think start to bring out very radical Rogers&#8217;s interpretations are &#8211; radical in disagreeing with a lot of even very conservative scholarship, and radical in implying numerous logical contradictions. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;ve edited the audio here to be more listenable, removing intros and transitions and stumbles, correcting a misstatement by me (I said &#8220;John&#8221; instead of &#8220;Matthew&#8221;), and reducing some of the cross-talk. And of course, I added breaks with thinking music.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Next week<\/strong>: back-and-forth discussion, audience Q&amp;A, and closing statements. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Source video (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/a6vH3G0kf-c\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Source video<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC-DJyBJlGeHvXfUXAojqL7w\" target=\"_blank\">Marlon Wilson&#8217;s The Gospel Truth YouTube channel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 225 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 \u2013 Old \u201cLord\u201d vs. New \u201cLord\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-225-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-2-old-lord-vs-new-lord\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 225 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 \u2013 Old \u201cLord\u201d vs. New \u201cLord\u201d<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-305-two-readings-of-mark-popular-or-esoteric-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 305 \u2013 Two Readings of Mark \u2013 popular or esoteric? \u2013 Part 1<\/a> (<a aria-label=\"Part 2 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-306-two-readings-of-mark-popular-or-esoteric-part-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Part 2<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-307-two-readings-of-mark-popular-or-esoteric-part-3\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Part 3 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Part 3<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Does Mark teach that Jesus is God? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Does Mark teach that Jesus is God?<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/mark-jesus-is-gods-son-the-messiah\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Mark: Jesus is God\u2019s Son, the Messiah (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Mark: Jesus is God\u2019s Son, the Messiah<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 13 \u2013 On Bauckham\u2019s Bargain (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-13-on-bauckhams-bargain\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 13 \u2013 On Bauckham\u2019s Bargain<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 213 \u2013 Has Bauckham clarified his \u201cdivine identity\u201d theory? \u2013 Part 1 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-213-has-bauckham-clarified-his-divine-identity-theory-part-1\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 213 \u2013 Has Bauckham clarified his \u201cdivine identity\u201d theory? \u2013 Part 1<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-214-has-bauckham-clarified-his-divine-identity-theory-part-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Part 2 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Part 2<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-4-1024x434.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43044\" width=\"564\" height=\"239\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-4-1024x434.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-4-450x191.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-4-768x325.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/debate-1-30-21-pic-4.png 1145w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 564px) 100vw, 564px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>fulfillment fallacy posts: <a aria-label=\"the Bible teaches that David is God (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-teaches-that-david-is-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the Bible teaches that David is God<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-on-another-previous-life-of-jesus\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"the Bible on another previous life of Jesus (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the Bible on another previous life of Jesus<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/apologetics-blind-spot-numerical-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"\u201cIdentifying Jesus as Yahweh\u201d as heresy (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/identifying-jesus-as-yahweh-as-heresy\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">\u201cIdentifying Jesus as Yahweh\u201d as heresy<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a aria-label=\"podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-257-a-letter-from-the-lord-jesus-about-god-and-me\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 257 \u2013 A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 257 \u2013 A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/debating-dale-starter-pack\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Debating Dale Starter Pack (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Debating Dale Starter Pack<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a aria-label=\"Black Keys (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\/Simplify\/Bright_Night_020617_L2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Black Keys<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\">Little Glass Men<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is the main thesis of the earliest Christian gospel?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43042,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,75,14,82,57,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43037","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-divine-attributes","category-history","category-miracles","category-podcast","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43037","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43037"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43037\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43051,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43037\/revisions\/43051"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43042"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43037"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43037"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43037"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}