{"id":43086,"date":"2021-02-23T16:51:23","date_gmt":"2021-02-23T22:51:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43086"},"modified":"2021-02-23T16:51:31","modified_gmt":"2021-02-23T22:51:31","slug":"podcast-320-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-2-interpretive-fails","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-320-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-2-interpretive-fails\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 320 \u2013 Thoughts on my debate with Rogers about Mark \u2013 Part 2 \u2013 interpretive fails"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_963\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43086-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities320.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities320.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities320.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities320.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43086-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities320.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities320.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fails-1024x768.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43092\" width=\"471\" height=\"353\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fails-1024x768.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fails-450x338.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fails-768x576.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/fails.png 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 471px) 100vw, 471px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode, my final thoughts on my recent debate with apologist Anthony Rogers about whether Mark teaches that Jesus is the one true God (<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-317-debate-with-rogers-does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god-part-1\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"part 1 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">part 1<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-318-debate-with-rogers-does-mark-teach-that-jesus-is-god-part-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"part 2 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">part 2<\/a>). Topics include:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><strong>the fulfillment fallacy<\/strong><\/li><li>how New Testament authors use the Old Testament<\/li><li>a serious <strong>misreading of Psalm 110<\/strong> which confuses together the two characters<\/li><li>the idea of <strong>multiple meanings<\/strong> and how this relates to divine inspiration<\/li><li>the <strong><em>original <\/em>meanings<\/strong> and contexts of Psalm 45 and Psalm 2<\/li><li>Matthew 2:15 as a fulfillment of Hosea 11:1<\/li><li><strong>Mark&#8217;s and Luke&#8217;s portrayals of Jesus as limited in knowledge<\/strong> and Rogers&#8217;s attempts to re-interpret these passages so as to preserve or even imply Jesus&#8217;s omniscience<\/li><li>what many apologists don&#8217;t understand about early Christian theologies and John 1<\/li><li><strong>Irenaeus<\/strong>&#8216;s view that Jesus knew less than God<\/li><li>how Rogers anachronistically misunderstands what <strong>Novatian <\/strong>teaches about Jesus and God<\/li><li>Rogers&#8217;s &#8220;I know Greek!&#8221; rhetoric, and what many people don&#8217;t know about how language skills relate to interpretive disputes<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 319 \u2013 Thoughts on my debate with Rogers about Mark \u2013 Part 1 \u2013 culture clash<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 318 \u2013 Debate with Rogers \u2013 Does Mark teach that Jesus is God? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 317 \u2013 Debate with Rogers \u2013 Does Mark teach that Jesus is God? \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/netbible.org\/bible\/Mark+1\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The NET Bible (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The NET Bible<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Bible-Full-notes-Cloth-Board-Comfort\/dp\/0785224645\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Hardcover (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Hardcover<\/a>)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Commentary-New-Testament-Use-Old\/dp\/0801026938\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Three-Views-New-Testament-Counterpoints\/dp\/0310273331\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-176-photinus-of-sirmium\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 176 \u2013 Photinus of Sirmium (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 176 \u2013 Photinus of Sirmium<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-301-dr-daniel-boyarin-on-john-1\/\">podcast 301 \u2013 Dr. Daniel Boyarin on John 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-298-andrews-norton-on-john-1\/\">podcast 298 \u2013 Andrews Norton on John 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 293 \u2013 Dr. Jo-Ann Brant on the Gospel According to John \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 292 \u2013 New vs. Old \u201cBeginning\u201d \u2013 Two Interpretations of John 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 291 \u2013 From one God to two gods to three \u201cGods\u201d \u2013 John 1 and early Christian theologies<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 290 \u2013 Is the \u201cSocinian\u201d interpretation of John 1 correct? A conversation with Carlos.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 289 \u2013 \u201cSocinian\u201d approaches to John 1 \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 288 \u2013 \u201cSocinian\u201d approaches to John 1 \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-293-dr-jo-ann-brant-on-the-gospel-according-to-john-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 287 \u2013 Dr. Andrew Perry on John 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology Dr. Dale Tuggy - SUNY\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/0Hnlw4iMhE8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"posts on Irenaeus (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=Irenaeus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">posts on Irenaeus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.textexcavation.com\/irenaeusah5.html\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Irenaeus, Against Heresies Book 5 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Irenaeus, <em>Against Heresies<\/em> Book 5<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/origen-on-the-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Origen on the Challenge to Jesus is God Apologists (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Origen on the Challenge to Jesus is God Apologists<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Novatian, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Trinity-Spectacles-Letters-Fathers-Patristic\/dp\/0813215463\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Trinity, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, Letters (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Trinity, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, Letters<\/a><\/em> (older, free translation of <em><a href=\"https:\/\/archive.org\/details\/treatiseofnovati00mooruoft\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"On the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">On the Trinity<\/a><\/em>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Matthew 1:23; Isaiah 7; Psalm 110; Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9; Matthew 2:15; Hosea 11:1; Mark 1; Mark 13:32; Mark 5:NN; Luke 8:42-48; Matthew 9:18-22; Matthew 9:8; Deuteronomy 34.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\/The_Jewel_and_Me\/The_Magic_Bullet_020617_L2\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Magic Bullet (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Magic Bullet<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\">Little Glass Men<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Adventures in theologically-motivated misinterpretation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43092,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,6,54,14,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43086","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-complaints","category-debates","category-history","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43086","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43086"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43086\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43116,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43086\/revisions\/43116"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43092"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43086"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43086"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43086"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}