{"id":43170,"date":"2021-04-03T17:04:00","date_gmt":"2021-04-03T22:04:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43170"},"modified":"2021-04-03T17:04:07","modified_gmt":"2021-04-03T22:04:07","slug":"podcast-323-did-god-die-on-the-cross","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-323-did-god-die-on-the-cross\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 323 &#8211; Did God die on the cross?"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_2807\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43170-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities323.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities323.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities323.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities323.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43170-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities323.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities323.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/crucifixion-1749008_1280-1024x738.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43173\" width=\"496\" height=\"357\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/crucifixion-1749008_1280-1024x738.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/crucifixion-1749008_1280-450x324.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/crucifixion-1749008_1280-768x553.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/crucifixion-1749008_1280.jpg 1273w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 496px) 100vw, 496px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode I interact with an episode of the <a aria-label=\"Church Grammar (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/player.fm\/series\/church-grammar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Church Grammar<\/a> podcast by Baptist theologian <a aria-label=\"Dr. Brandon Smith (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.cedarville.edu\/academic-schools-and-departments\/biblical-and-theological-studies\/faculty-staff\/smith-brandon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Brandon Smith<\/a> called <strong>&#8220;<a aria-label=\" (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/secundumscripturas.com\/2020\/03\/20\/did-god-die-on-the-cross\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Did God Die on the Cross?<\/a>&#8220;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Dr. Smith&#8217;s answer is: yes<\/strong>, &#8220;God&#8221; (i.e. the eternal, divine Son) did die on the cross.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>My answer is: no<\/strong>, it was not God but rather God&#8217;s human Son who died on the cross, and a fully divine Person can&#8217;t in any way die.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s <strong>a contrast of two ways to approach New Testament doctrine<\/strong>: coming to it with the full arsenal of catholic commitments from the first four &#8220;ecumenical&#8221; councils vs. trying to let New Testament teaching stand on its own, with no help from Incarnation and Trinity speculations, focusing on its clear claims, and carefully using some conceptual analysis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Topics include:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>what the New Testament actually says about the one who died for us on the cross<\/li><li><strong>the standard catholic view<\/strong> that the one self in the incarnate Christ is the divine one, the &#8220;complete human nature&#8221; there being &#8220;anhypostatic&#8221;<\/li><li>our common <strong>concept of death<\/strong> and how this relates to the idea of ceasing to exist<\/li><li>modern &#8220;kenosis&#8221; speculations about incarnation<\/li><li>the alleged essential divine attributes of immutability, necessity, and <strong>immortality<\/strong><\/li><li>two understandings of <strong>&#8220;the immortality of the soul&#8221; <\/strong>and which is common to most Christian traditions<\/li><li><strong>how standard catholic views seem to imply that Jesus&#8217;s crucifixion did <em>not <\/em>involve a human death<\/strong><\/li><li>Why Dr. Smith thinks that if <em>the Son<\/em> died this amounts to <em>God himself<\/em> dying.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Did a fully divine Person die on the cross, or was it a very special man?<\/strong> Let us know what you think in a comment below or in the podcast&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/trinities\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Facebook group (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Facebook group<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/church-grammar.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43175\" width=\"339\" height=\"338\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/church-grammar.png 443w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/church-grammar-150x150.png 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 339px) 100vw, 339px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Dr. Brandon Smith (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.cedarville.edu\/academic-schools-and-departments\/biblical-and-theological-studies\/faculty-staff\/smith-brandon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Brandon Smith<\/a>, his <a aria-label=\"Church Grammar podcast (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/player.fm\/series\/church-grammar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Church Grammar podcast<\/a>, &#8220;<a aria-label=\"Did God Die on the Cross? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/secundumscripturas.com\/2020\/03\/20\/did-god-die-on-the-cross\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Did God Die on the Cross?<\/a>&#8220;, <strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.centerforbaptistrenewal.com\/blog\/2019\/12\/14\/did-god-die-on-the-cross-the-trinity-and-the-crucifixion\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;Did God Die on the Cross?: The Trinity and the Crucifixion&#8221;<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies! (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Romans 5:1-11<strong>; <\/strong>1 Timothy 6:13-16; Psalm 22; Luke 23:46; Matthew 27:46; John 3:16.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/what-is-modalism\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"What is Modalism? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is Modalism?<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Clarifying Catholic Christologies (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/s6wK-lRZP-k\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Clarifying Catholic Christologies<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-143-dr-timothy-pawls-in-defense-of-conciliar-christology-part-1\/\">podcast 143 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-144-dr-timothy-pawls-defense-conciliar-christology-part-2\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 144 \u2013 Dr. Timothy Pawl\u2019s In Defense of Conciliar Christology \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-235-the-case-against-preexistence\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 235 \u2013 The Case Against Preexistence (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 235 \u2013 The Case Against Preexistence<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 146 \u2013 Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-146-jesus-exemplar-faith-new-testament\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 146 \u2013 Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/c35_uFjEbx8\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Debate - &quot;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&quot; - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Debate &#8211; &#8220;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&#8221; &#8211; Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Jesus-Divine-Essential-Christian-Debates\/dp\/1946971804\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Is Jesus Human and not Divine? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Is Jesus Human and not Divine?<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#OneSel\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"one-self Trinity theories (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">one-self Trinity theories<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Mise\/Alive_Doing_It_Right\/MISE_-_Alive_Doing_It_Right_-_Single_-_02_Alive_Doing_It_Right_-Instrumental-\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Alive (Doing It Right) [Instrumental] (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Alive (Doing It Right) [Instrumental]<\/a>&#8221;\u00a0by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Mise\">Mise Darling<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If God is essentially immortal, the answer must be: No. But the human Jesus of the Bible was then mortal.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43173,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,15,75,80,33,57,77,3,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43170","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-christology","category-divine-attributes","category-faith","category-incarnation","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-theories","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43170","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43170"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43170\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43178,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43170\/revisions\/43178"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43173"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43170"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43170"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43170"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}