{"id":43239,"date":"2021-05-03T23:11:20","date_gmt":"2021-05-04T04:11:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43239"},"modified":"2021-05-03T23:11:27","modified_gmt":"2021-05-04T04:11:27","slug":"podcast-326-dr-liconas-historical-case-that-jesus-considered-himself-to-be-god-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-326-dr-liconas-historical-case-that-jesus-considered-himself-to-be-god-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 326 &#8211; Dr. Licona&#8217;s historical case that Jesus considered himself to be God &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9182\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43239-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities326.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities326.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities326.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities326.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43239-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities326.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities326.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-lecturing-in-2017.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43243\" width=\"355\" height=\"293\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-lecturing-in-2017.png 847w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-lecturing-in-2017-450x372.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-lecturing-in-2017-768x635.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 355px) 100vw, 355px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Trinitarian and unitarian Christians often argue about whether the Bible teaches that Jesus is the one true God. But in this presentation from a 2017 apologetics conference, Dr. Mike Licona argues<strong> that the real, historical man Jesus considered himself to be God,<\/strong> and he argues like a secular historian, not assuming that the biblical writings are inspired. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dr. Licona focuses on some of the earliest New Testament texts, <strong>arguing that they show that the earliest Christians believed Jesus to be divine<\/strong>, i.e. to be the one God. Then he argues that the best explanation of this knowable historical fact is that Jesus himself claimed to be God, something which he suggests is indicated by certain passages in even the earliest New Testament gospel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>In this first part I interact with the critically evaluate Dr. Licona&#8217;s argument for the first step<\/strong>, that the earliest New Testament writings give us strong evidence for thinking that the earliest Christians thought that Jesus is God. He founds his case on the much-discussed Philippians 2:5-11, and then discusses some passages in Paul&#8217;s writings where Paul seems to refer to Old Testament prophecies about Yahweh and then applies them to Jesus. Is this Paul&#8217;s way of implying that Jesus is God himself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-in-2017-1024x706.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43247\" width=\"500\" height=\"345\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-in-2017-1024x706.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-in-2017-450x310.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-in-2017-768x530.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mike-Licona-in-2017.png 1444w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hbu.edu\/contact\/michael-licona\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Licona's page at Houston Baptist University (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Licona&#8217;s page at Houston Baptist University<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.risenjesus.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Licona's ministry RisenJesus.com (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Dr. Licona&#8217;s ministry RisenJesus.com<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"DEBATE: Shabir Ally vs. Mike Licona (Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? 2004) (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=eoiScvG3Emo\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Shabir Ally vs. Mike Licona (Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? 2004)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Bart Ehrman vs Mike Licona (Are the Gospels Historically Reliable? 2018) (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/qP7RrCfDkO4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Bart Ehrman vs Mike Licona (Are the Gospels Historically Reliable? 2018)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"What was the first century fate of Jesus? Ali Ataie vs. Mike Licona (2006) (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/2LkN0QlaadU\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What was the first century fate of Jesus? Ali Ataie vs. Mike Licona (2006)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/eGyz0sVwYiY\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Life of Jesus: History or Mistake? Mike Licona &amp; Matthew McCormick (2016) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Life of Jesus: History or Mistake? Mike Licona &amp; Matthew McCormick (2016)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/c35_uFjEbx8\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"&quot;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&quot; - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date (2019) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;Is Jesus Human and not Divine?&#8221; &#8211; Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date (2019)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Proverbs 18:17; Philippians 2:5-11; Matthew 20:28; Ephesians 4:4-6; Isaiah 45:5; Isaiah 7:10-25; Matthew 1:23; Philippians 1:2; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 1:17; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 1 Corinthians 11:3; Romans 10:9; Acts 2:36; Joel 2:32; 1 Thessalonians 3:11-14; Zechariah 14:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; Romans 1:1-7; Galatians 1:11-24; Galatians 2:1-14.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Is-Jesus-Human-and-Not-Divine-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43248\" width=\"267\" height=\"411\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Is-Jesus-Human-and-Not-Divine-1.jpg 324w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Is-Jesus-Human-and-Not-Divine-1-292x450.jpg 292w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 267px) 100vw, 267px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Jesus-Divine-Essential-Christian-Debates\/dp\/1946971804\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and not Divine? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Tuggy and Date, <em>Is Jesus Human and not Divine?<\/em><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-124-a-challenge-to-jesus-is-god-apologists\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 124 \u2013 a challenge to \u201cJesus is God\u201d apologists<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Loke, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Christology-Society-Testament-Studies-Monograph\/dp\/1316648753\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Origin of Divine Christology (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Origin of Divine Christology<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"a reading of Philippians 2:5-11 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/a-reading-of-philippians-25-11\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>a reading of Philippians 2:5-11<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a aria-label=\"Where Christology Began: Essays of Philippians 2 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Where-Christology-Began-Philippians-1-Jul-1998\/dp\/B013PRKOPK\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Where Christology Began: Essays of Philippians 2<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-225-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-2-old-lord-vs-new-lord\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 225 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 \u2013 Old \u201cLord\u201d vs. New \u201cLord\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies! (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-320-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-2-interpretive-fails\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 320 \u2013 Thoughts on my debate with Rogers about Mark \u2013 Part 2 \u2013 interpretive fails<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"the Bible teaches that David is God (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-teaches-that-david-is-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the Bible teaches that David is God<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-on-another-previous-life-of-jesus\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"the Bible on another previous life of Jesus (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the Bible on another previous life of Jesus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a aria-label=\"identity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">identity<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/on-numerical-sameness-identity-absolute-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"On Numerical Sameness \/ Identity \/ \u201cAbsolute\u201d Identity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">On Numerical Sameness \/ Identity \/ \u201cAbsolute\u201d Identity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/apologetics-blind-spot-numerical-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\/The_Jewel_and_Me\/Moon_Shadow_082316_2\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Moon Shadow (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Moon Shadow<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Little_Glass_Men\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Little Glass Men (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Little Glass Men<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dr. Mike Licona argues that the real, historical man Jesus considered himself to be God.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43243,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,33,9,57],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43239","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-incarnation","category-philosophy","category-podcast"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43239","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43239"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43239\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43250,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43239\/revisions\/43250"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43243"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43239"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43239"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43239"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}