{"id":43544,"date":"2021-12-14T22:40:16","date_gmt":"2021-12-15T04:40:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43544"},"modified":"2021-12-17T17:25:21","modified_gmt":"2021-12-17T23:25:21","slug":"podcast-340-does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine-loke-vs-tuggy-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-340-does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine-loke-vs-tuggy-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 340 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? \u2013 Loke vs. Tuggy \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_5229\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43544-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities340.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities340.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities340.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities340.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43544-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities340.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities340.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2--1024x488.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43546\" width=\"464\" height=\"221\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2--1024x488.png 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2--450x214.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2--768x366.png 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2--1536x731.png 1536w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/tuggy-and-loke-2-.png 1905w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 464px) 100vw, 464px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this final portion of our debate, we engage in <strong>about 40 minutes of free-flowing discussion,<\/strong> followed by our closing statements. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Our topic is New Testament teaching, but I can&#8217;t resist raising what look to me like some serious <strong>problems for Dr. Loke&#8217;s &#8220;kryptic&#8221; theory of the incarnation<\/strong>, on which the Son&#8217;s divine omniscience is in his &#8220;pre-conscious&#8221; mind, not being directly accessible to him. Among other problems, surely perfection in knowledge requires more than omniscience, and some divine attributes are not mental.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Now that you&#8217;ve heard the whole debate, which side made the stronger case, and why?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After you hear our exchange on the famous &#8220;my Lord and my God&#8221; text, you can check out the video below from the <a aria-label=\"Unitarian Christian Alliance (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.unitarianchristianalliance.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Unitarian Christian Alliance<\/a> <a aria-label=\"YouTube channel (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCfyDHfpZISrgXnQ1fMt-5Hg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">YouTube channel<\/a>. I think it makes points which complement my all-too-brief remarks here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"John 20:28 - Did Thomas Confess that Jesus IS God?\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PmTsuCv7oSk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-339-does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine-loke-vs-tuggy-part-1\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 339 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? \u2013 Loke vs. Tuggy \u2013 Part 1 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 339 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? \u2013 Loke vs. Tuggy \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hkbu.academia.edu\/AndrewTerErnLoke\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Dr. Loke\u2019s publications at Academia.edu<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Loke, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Christology-Society-Testament-Studies-Monograph\/dp\/1316648753\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The Origin of Divine Christology<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Loke, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Incarnation-Routledge-Critical-Thinking-Religion\/dp\/1138081787\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">A Kryptic Model of the Incarnation<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Jordan Hampton\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/c\/TheAnalyticChristian\/videos\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The Analytic Christian YouTube channel<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/6k-ECuZFCsA\" target=\"_blank\">The original video of this whole debate.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/kermit-zarley-on-my-lord-and-my-god\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Kermit Zarley on \u201cMy Lord and my God.\u201d<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/r-t-france-on-mark-1332\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"R.T. France on Mark 13:32 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>R.T. France on Mark 13:32<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"the NET Bible on Mark 13:32 (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-net-bible-on-mark-1332\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the NET Bible on Mark 13:32<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/letter\/\" target=\"_blank\">A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Tuggy and Date,<em> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Jesus-Divine-Essential-Christian-Debates\/dp\/1946971804\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Is Jesus Human a<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Jesus-Divine-Essential-Christian-Debates\/dp\/1946971804\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">nd Not Divine?<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-259-who-is-the-one-creator-part-2\/\">podcast 259 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-259-who-is-the-one-creator-part-2\/\">podcast 258 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-226-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-3-post-biblical-uses-of-biblical-words-and-new-words\/\">podcast 226 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 \u2013 post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-226-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-3-post-biblical-uses-of-biblical-words-and-new-words\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 225 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 \u2013 Old \u201cLord\u201d vs. New \u201cLord\u201d<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-226-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-3-post-biblical-uses-of-biblical-words-and-new-words\/\">podcast 224 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 \u2013 God and \u201cGod\u201d in the Bible<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\"><strong>podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Josh_Woodward\/The_Simple_Life_Part_1\/JoshWoodward-TSL-NoVox-103-Saturday\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Saturday (Instrumental) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Saturday (Instrumental)<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Josh_Woodward\">Josh Woodward<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In saying &#8220;my Lord and my God&#8221; does Thomas confess that Jesus is truly divine?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43546,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,15,54,75,14,33,9,57,95],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43544","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-christology","category-debates","category-divine-attributes","category-history","category-incarnation","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-uca"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43544","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43544"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43544\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43553,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43544\/revisions\/43553"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43546"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43544"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43544"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43544"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}