{"id":43762,"date":"2022-05-09T10:21:14","date_gmt":"2022-05-09T15:21:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43762"},"modified":"2022-05-23T14:06:40","modified_gmt":"2022-05-23T19:06:40","slug":"podcast-347-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-1-almost-pope","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-347-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-1-almost-pope\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 347 &#8211; Novatian&#8217;s On the Trinity \u2013 Part 1 \u2013 Almost Pope"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_626\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43762-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities347.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities347.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities347.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities347.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43762-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities347.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities347.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image caption-align-center\"><figure class=\"alignleft size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43771\" width=\"366\" height=\"366\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-1.jpg 750w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-1-450x450.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/novatian-1-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 366px) 100vw, 366px\" \/><figcaption>A possible image of Novatian.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Novatian was executed by the Roman government in 258. This ended <strong>an interesting career<\/strong>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After an emergency baptism when he was sick, Novatian became a priest and a leading theologian at Rome. He wrote his book <strong><em>The Trinity<\/em> as a sort of commentary on traditional Roman baptismal creed<\/strong>, in order to help laypeople steer around docetic, Modalistic Monarchian, and Dynamic Monarchian christologies. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode I discuss the <strong>various reactions of Christians to the order of the emperor in 249 to either sacrifice or be executed<\/strong>, and then I explain how Novatian became the leader of a faction of churches in Rome which would not re-admit the &#8220;lapsed.&#8221; He might have become the bishop of Rome, but later people have sometimes called him an &#8220;anti-pope.&#8221; <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I then <strong>summarize his book<\/strong> and the rival theologies to his own brand of 3rd c. logos speculations, and I speculate myself about <strong>why he doesn&#8217;t use the word <em>trinitas<\/em><\/strong><em> <\/em>in the book. Finally, since Novatian urges throughout this book that clearly the Son is <em>Deus<\/em>, I ask what such <strong>&#8220;Jesus is God&#8221;<\/strong> statements mean. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This sets the stage for the next episode, where we dig in to the last two chapters of his book, where he engages with some clear Modalistic Monarchian and Dynamic Monarchian arguments and explains why his own logos theory approach is monotheistic and not polytheistic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Papandrea,<em> <\/em><a aria-label=\"Novatian of Rome and the Culmination of Pre-Nicene Orthodoxy (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Culmination-Pre-Nicene-Orthodoxy-Princeton-Theological-ebook\/dp\/B00Q5A6XNW\/ref=sr_1_1?crid=15H0HLXYVKO2X&amp;keywords=Novatian+of+Rome+and+the+Culmination+of+Pre-Nicene+Orthodoxy&amp;qid=1652105197&amp;sprefix=novatian+of+rome+and+the+culmination+of+pre-nicene+orthodoxy%2Caps%2C83&amp;sr=8-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><em>Novatian of Rome and the Culminat<\/em>ion of Pre-Nicene Orthodoxy<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image caption-align-center\"><figure class=\"alignright size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bust_of_Decius_loan_from_Capitoline_Museums_-_Glyptothek_-_Munich_-_Germany_2017-cropped-bw.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-43772\" width=\"374\" height=\"365\"\/><figcaption>Emperor Decius, who initiated the Empire-wide persecution of Christians in 249.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Novatian, <em><a aria-label=\"The Trinity, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, Letters (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Trinity-Spectacles-Letters-Fathers-Patristic\/dp\/0813215463\/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2N5J3SDS23NPQ&amp;keywords=The+Trinity%2C+The+Spectacles%2C+Jewish+Foods%2C+In+Praise+of+Purity%2C+Letters&amp;qid=1652105240&amp;sprefix=the+trinity%2C+the+spectacles%2C+jewish+foods%2C+in+praise+of+purity%2C+letters%2Caps%2C100&amp;sr=8-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Trinity<\/a><\/em><\/strong><em><a aria-label=\"The Trinity, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, Letters (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Trinity-Spectacles-Letters-Fathers-Patristic\/dp\/0813215463\/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2N5J3SDS23NPQ&amp;keywords=The+Trinity%2C+The+Spectacles%2C+Jewish+Foods%2C+In+Praise+of+Purity%2C+Letters&amp;qid=1652105240&amp;sprefix=the+trinity%2C+the+spectacles%2C+jewish+foods%2C+in+praise+of+purity%2C+letters%2Caps%2C100&amp;sr=8-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, Letters<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a aria-label=\"The Treatise of Novatian on the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/archive.org\/details\/cu31924096083344\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Treatise of Novatian on the Trinity<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rives, &#8220;<a aria-label=\"The Decree of Decius and the Religion of Empire (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.jstor.org\/stable\/300738\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Decree of Decius and the Religion of Empire<\/a>&#8220;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Decius\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Emperor Decius (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Emperor Decius<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-270-origens-one-god\/\">podcast 270 \u2013 Origen\u2019s \u201cone God\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-334-who-do-you-say-i-am\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 334 \u2013 \u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 334 \u2013 \u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-12-the-apostles-creed\/\">podcast 12 \u2013 the Apostles\u2019 Creed<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-316-review-of-papandrea-trinity-101-father-son-holy-spirit\/\">podcast 316 \u2013 Review of Papandrea, Trinity 101: Father, Son, Holy Spirit<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-224-biblical-words-for-god-and-for-his-son-part-1-god-and-god-in-the-bible\/\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 224 \u2013 Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 \u2013 God and \u201cGod\u201d in the Bible<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-259-who-is-the-one-creator-part-2\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 259 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-258-who-is-the-one-creator-part-1\/\">podcast 258 \u2013 Who is the one Creator? \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is the track &#8220;<a aria-label=\"Retrospective (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/koi-discovery\/omega\/retrospective\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Retrospective<\/a>&#8221; by <a aria-label=\"Koi-discover (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/koi-discovery\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Koi-discov<\/a><a aria-label=\"Koi-discover (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/koi-discovery\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">e<\/a><a aria-label=\"Koi-discover (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/koi-discovery\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">r<\/a><a aria-label=\"Koi-discover (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/koi-discovery\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">y<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sacrifice to the gods, or die. What would you do?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":43771,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[16,15,58,100,14,5,101,38,9,57,76,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43762","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-books","category-christology","category-creeds","category-dynamic-monarchian","category-history","category-modalism","category-modalistic-monarchian","category-monotheism","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-roman-catholicism","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43762","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43762"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43762\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43809,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43762\/revisions\/43809"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/43771"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43762"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43762"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43762"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}