{"id":43995,"date":"2022-11-08T20:28:35","date_gmt":"2022-11-09T02:28:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=43995"},"modified":"2025-11-04T21:44:55","modified_gmt":"2025-11-05T03:44:55","slug":"podcast-356-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-356-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 356 &#8211; Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_8396\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-43995-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities356.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities356.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities356.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities356.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=43995-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities356.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities356.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignright size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"315\" height=\"336\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/johnny-best-headshot-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44002\"\/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Johnny Barnes<\/strong> earned a Master of Arts in Theological Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. When he took the required class on the Trinity, he couldn&#8217;t help but notice that many of the texts appealed to in order to support the Trinity were <strong>problematic <\/strong>in various ways. And he did not see anyone in Scripture appealing to &#8220;<strong>mystery<\/strong>&#8221; to attempt to deal with problems of coherence. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Finding out online that there are <a aria-label=\"biblical unitarian (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.biblicalunitarian.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">biblical unitarian<\/a> Christians, he <strong>decided to look into these issues<\/strong>, and he became convinced that New Testament theology is unitarian and not trinitarian, in other words, that it teaches the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=1+cor+8%3A6&amp;version=NIV\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"one God to be the Father himself (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">one God to be the Father himself<\/a>, not a three-and-one or tripersonal deity which is never mentioned. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">. . . if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.<\/p>\n<cite>Romans 10:9 (NET Bible)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this <strong>first half of our conversation<\/strong> we discuss Mr. Barnes&#8217;s spiritual background, his time at Dallas Theological Seminary, his experience in their required Trinity class, problems for &#8220;two-natures&#8221; theories about Jesus, how present-day seminary education virtually ignores unitarian Christianity and seems uninterested in hearing both sides of the argument, clashing <em>evangelical <\/em>views on whether or not one must believe in the Trinity to be saved, the reactions of his friends to his change of mind, the reaction of DTS to his change of mind, various unitarian people and sources he found helpful as he was deliberating, and what he is doing now. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode: <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/three-recent-whistleblowers\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Three recent whistleblowers (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Three recent whistleblowers<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"RTS Dallas (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/rts.edu\/campuses\/dallas\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">RTS Dallas<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dts.edu\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dallas Theological Seminary (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dallas Theological Seminary<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.revisedenglishversion.com\/John\/chapter1\/18\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"REV note on John 1:18 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">REV note on John 1:18<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/uct.academia.edu\/KeganChandler\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Kegan Chandler (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Kegan Chandler<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Chaldler, &#8220;<a aria-label=\"Unorthodox  (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/41317228\/Unorthodox_Christology_in_General_Baptist_History_The_Legacy_of_Matthew_Caffyn\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Unorthodox <\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.academia.edu\/41317228\/Unorthodox_Christology_in_General_Baptist_History_The_Legacy_of_Matthew_Caffyn\" class=\"ek-link\">Christology in General Baptist History: The Legacy of Matthew Caffyn<\/a>&#8220;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#NegMys\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"&quot;Negative Mysterianism&quot; about the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">&#8220;Negative Mysterianism&#8221; about the Trinity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/carm.org\/dictionary\/eutychianism\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Eutychianism (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Eutychianism<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/event\/Council-of-Chalcedon\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"the Council of Chalcedon (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the Council of Chalcedon<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies! (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-145-tis-mystery-immortal-dies\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 145 \u2013 \u2018Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/Oi300_FvFz0\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Debate - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brown (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Debate &#8211; Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"biblicalunitarian.com (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.biblicalunitarian.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>biblicalunitarian.com<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/spiritandtruthonline.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Spirit and Truth (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Spirit and Truth<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\" (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.revisedenglishversion.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>REV Bible<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/william-ellery-channing-and-moses-stuart\/channing-vs-stuart-on-the-trinity-and-the-incarnation\/paperback\/product-12qj55d.html?q=channing+stuart&amp;page=1&amp;pageSize=4\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Channing vs. Stuart on the Trinity and the Incarnation (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Channing vs. Stuart on the Trinity and the Incarnation<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-191-wares-outline-of-the-testimony-of-scripture-against-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 191 \u2013 Ware\u2019s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 191 \u2013 Ware\u2019s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the Trinity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?s=What+is+essential+to+the+gospel%2C+according+to+Luke%3F\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"What is essential to the gospel, according to Luke? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is essential to the gospel, according to Luke?<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.revisedenglishversion.com\/Prov\/18\/nav17\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Proverbs 18:17 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Proverbs 18:17<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/restitutio.org\/sean-finnegans-bio\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Sean Finnegan (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Sean Finnegan<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/restitutio.org\/get-podcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Restitutio podcast (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Restitutio podcast<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.jerrywierwille.com\/about\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Jerry Wierwille (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Jerry Wierwille<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/nb4TogqyTrw\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dale Tuggy - What John 1 Meant (UCA Conference 2021) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dale Tuggy &#8211; What John 1 Meant (UCA Conference 2021)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/0Hnlw4iMhE8\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology - by Dr. Dale Tuggy (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology &#8211; by Dr. Dale Tuggy<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-252-fred-sanders-on-seeing-the-trinity-in-scripture-and-his-secret\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 252 \u2013 Fred Sanders on Seeing the Trinity in Scripture, and his Secret (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 252 \u2013 Fred Sanders on Seeing the Trinity in Scripture, and his Secret<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-63-thomas-belsham-and-other-scholars-on-john-858\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 63 \u2013 Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 63 \u2013 Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a aria-label=\"What is the Trinity? (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/www.what-is-the-trinity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is the Trinity?<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 260 \u2013 How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-260-how-to-argue-that-the-bible-is-trinitarian\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 260 \u2013 How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:22; Romans 10:9<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-286-is-the-trinity-essential-three-views\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 286 \u2013 Is the Trinity Essential? \u2013 Three Views (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 286 \u2013 Is the Trinity Essential? \u2013 Three Views<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-2-the-athanasian-creed\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Samuel Clarke (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/clarke\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Samuel Clarke<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/interruptingthesilence.com\/2012\/06\/03\/gregory-of-nazianzus-on-the-three-and-the-one\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Gregory of Nazianzus on the Three and the&nbsp;One (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Gregory of Nazianzus on the Three and the&nbsp;One<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.catholicculture.org\/culture\/library\/dictionary\/index.cfm?id=36918\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"transubstantiation (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">transubstantiation<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/streamliner\/streamliner\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Streamliner<\/a>&#8221; by <a aria-label=\"Mr. Smith (opens in a new tab)\" class=\"ek-link\" href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Mr. Smith<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;I had come to this belief truly just through studying the Word.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":44019,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[21,58,80,14,56,20,57,77,94,13,3,95,43,90],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43995","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible","category-creeds","category-faith","category-history","category-interview","category-mystery","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-socinian","category-theologians","category-theories","category-uca","category-unitarianism","category-whistleblower"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43995","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43995"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43995\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44954,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43995\/revisions\/44954"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/44019"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43995"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43995"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43995"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}