{"id":44172,"date":"2023-04-03T21:10:55","date_gmt":"2023-04-04T02:10:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=44172"},"modified":"2023-04-03T21:14:10","modified_gmt":"2023-04-04T02:14:10","slug":"podcast-362-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-362-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 362 &#8211; Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth on &#8220;mere&#8221; social trinitarianism and eternal relations of origin &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7553\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-44172-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities362.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities362.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities362.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities362.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=44172-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities362.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities362.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignleft size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hollingsworth-Andrew.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44174\" width=\"258\" height=\"258\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hollingsworth-Andrew.jpg 480w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hollingsworth-Andrew-450x450.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Hollingsworth-Andrew-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 258px) 100vw, 258px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this episode we&#8217;ll meet analytic theologian Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth and discuss his interesting forthcoming article \u201cMere Social Trinitarianism, the Eternal Relations of Origin, and Models of God\u201d in the <em><a aria-label=\"Journal of Analytic Theology (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/jat-ojs-baylor.tdl.org\/jat\/index\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Journal of Analytic Theology<\/a><\/em>. Topics include:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>&#8220;mere&#8221; social trinitarianism &#8211; the core claims which any &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarian is committed to<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the concept of a self<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the idea that God has multiple first-person points of view<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>why &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarianism has been popular recently among Christian philosophers and analytic theologians<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>whether &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarianism is found in Christian history before the 20th century<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>what &#8220;classical&#8221; trinitarianism was, in contrast to &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarianism<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>in what sense a &#8220;Person&#8221; of the Trinity &#8220;is God&#8221; according to &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarians<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the concept of constitution in Trinity theories and how this relates to worries about tritheism<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Chad McIntosh&#8217;s 4-self Trinity theory<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>William Lane Craig&#8217;s suggestion that a &#8220;social&#8221; trinitarian should insist there are two ways to be divine &#8211; one for God the Trinity and one for the divine Persons &amp; his cat-parts analogy<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>analytic theologian Keith Yandell&#8217;s social trinitarianism and tritheism objections<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Craig&#8217;s analogy for the Trinity as a soul with three complete sets of cognitive faculties and his Cerberus analogy, and how this relates to real-life human conjoined twins<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Dr. Jc Beall&#8217;s suggestion that the Incarnation and the Trinity should be understood as involving true (real) contradictions<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the seeming incoherence of the &#8220;Athanasian&#8221; creed<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the concept of God vs. models of God<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the Doctrine of the Eternal Relations of Origin (DERO) &#8211; i.e. a traditional trinitarian doctrine of &#8220;processions&#8221;<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the nature of these posited relations of origin &#8211; that they must be timeless and causal<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>whether the divine essence which the Father shares, via these origin relations, with the Son and Spirit is a universal property or a particular property <\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>the medieval suggestion that the &#8220;Persons&#8221; of the Trinity are &#8220;subsistent relations&#8221;<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>one-self Trinity theories<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In Part 2 we&#8217;ll discuss the costs of combining social trinitarianism and DERO.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bpc.edu\/directory\/andrew-hollingsworth\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth @ Brewton-Parker College (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth @ Brewton-Parker College<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Dr. Hollingsworth @ Academia.edu (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/bpc.academia.edu\/AndrewHollingsworth\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Hollingsworth @ Academia.edu<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/people.bu.edu\/wwildman\/bce\/pannenberg.htm\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Wolfhart Pannenberg (1928-2014) (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Wolfhart Pannenberg (1928-2014)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Umberto_Eco\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Umberto Eco (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Umberto Eco<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/peirce\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Charles Sanders Pierce (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Charles Sanders Pierce<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/eyUNmkT5bzU\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"What is &quot;analytic&quot; theology? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">What is &#8220;analytic&#8221; theology?<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignright size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Cerberus.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44193\" width=\"352\" height=\"352\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Cerberus.png 480w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Cerberus-450x450.png 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Cerberus-150x150.png 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 352px) 100vw, 352px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/jat-ojs-baylor.tdl.org\/jat\/article\/view\/508\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Hollingsworth's review of Thomas H. McCall. Analytic Christology and the Theological Interpretation of the New Testament (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Hollingsworth&#8217;s review of Thomas H. McCall. <em>Analytic Christology and the Theological Interpretation of the New Testament<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"Tuggy, &quot;Divine Deception and Monotheism&quot; (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/jat-ojs-baylor.tdl.org\/jat\/article\/view\/jat.2014-1.030004192024a\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Tuggy, &#8220;Divine Deception and Monotheism&#8221;<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#ThrSel\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"three self Trinity theories (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">three self Trinity theories<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/philoponus\/#Trit\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"John Philoponus on the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">John Philoponus on the Trinity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/archive.org\/details\/avindicationdoc00shergoog\/page\/n127\/mode\/2up\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"William Sherlock on the Trinity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">William Sherlock on the Trinity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/jat-ojs-baylor.tdl.org\/jat\/article\/view\/455\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Scott Williams, &quot;Discovery of the Sixth Ecumenical Council\u2019s Trinitarian Theology: Historical, Ecclesial, and Theological Implications&quot; (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Scott Williams, &#8220;Discovery of the Sixth Ecumenical Council\u2019s Trinitarian Theology: Historical, Ecclesial, and Theological Implications&#8221;<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-28-interview-with-dr-william-hasker-about-his-metaphysics-and-the-tripersonal-god-part-2\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 28 \u2013 Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-27-interview-with-dr-william-hasker-about-his-metaphysics-and-the-tripersonal-god-part-1\/\">podcast 27 \u2013 Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-300-does-the-new-testament-teach-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-2\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 300 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? \u2013 with Dale Glover \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-299-does-the-new-testament-teach-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 299 \u2013 Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? \u2013 with Dale Glover \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-297-assessing-craigs-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-2\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 297 \u2013 Assessing Craig\u2019s \u201cTrinity Monotheism\u201d \u2013 with Dale Glover \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-296-assessing-craigs-trinity-monotheism-with-dale-glover-part-1\/\">podcast 296 \u2013 Assessing Craig\u2019s \u201cTrinity Monotheism\u201d \u2013 with Dale Glover \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/First_seven_ecumenical_councils\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"the seven &quot;ecumenical&quot; councils (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">the seven &#8220;ecumenical&#8221; councils<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/dr-ryan-mullins-on-the-trinity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Dr. Ryan Mullins on \u201cthe Trinity\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Dr. Ryan Mullins on \u201cthe Trinity\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#TrinInc\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Trinity as Incoherent (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Trinity as Incoherent<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-325-dr-jc-beall-the-contradictory-christ-part-2\/\">podcast 325 \u2013 Dr. Jc Beall \u2013 The Contradictory Christ \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-324-dr-jc-beall-the-contradictory-christ-part-1\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 324 \u2013 Dr. Jc Beall \u2013 The Contradictory Christ \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 4 \u2013 Anglicans vs. \u201cAthanasius\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-2-the-athanasian-creed\/\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"The Orthodox Formulas 2: The Council of Constantinople (381) (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-orthodox-formulas-2-the-council-of-constantinople-381\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">The Orthodox Formulas 2: The Council of Constantinople (381)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/trinity\/#OneSel\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"one-self Trinity theories (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">one-self Trinity theories<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/dig.ccmixter.org\/files\/airtone\/66098\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"roboduck (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">roboduck<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"http:\/\/dig.ccmixter.org\/people\/airtone\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"airtone (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">airtone<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is &#8220;mere&#8221; social trinitarianism, and why is it controversial among trinitarian theologians?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":44195,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"[\"title\",\"meta\",\"content\",\"comments\",\"post-navigation\"]","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[58,75,14,56,8,47,9,57,13,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-44172","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-creeds","category-divine-attributes","category-history","category-interview","category-linkage","category-papers","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-theologians","category-theories"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44172","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=44172"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44172\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44194,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44172\/revisions\/44194"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/44195"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=44172"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=44172"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=44172"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}