{"id":44521,"date":"2023-12-23T21:09:34","date_gmt":"2023-12-24T03:09:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=44521"},"modified":"2023-12-23T21:09:38","modified_gmt":"2023-12-24T03:09:38","slug":"podcast-374-book-session-identity-crisis-part-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-374-book-session-identity-crisis-part-3\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 374 \u2013 Book Session Identity Crisis \u2013 Part 3"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_4408\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-44521-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities374.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities374.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities374.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities374.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=44521-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities374.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities374.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignright size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"865\" height=\"627\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mark-2-your-sins-are-forgiven.jpeg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44537\" style=\"width:454px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mark-2-your-sins-are-forgiven.jpeg 865w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mark-2-your-sins-are-forgiven-450x326.jpeg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mark-2-your-sins-are-forgiven-768x557.jpeg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 865px) 100vw, 865px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This episode is the final portion of the EPS session devoted to the forthcoming book, <em>One God, Three Persons, Four Views<\/em>, edited by Dr. Chad McIntosh. You&#8217;ll hear <strong>the entire Q&amp;A portion<\/strong> of the session, plus my commentary thereupon. Topics include:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">Jesus and the &#8220;one like a son of man&#8221; in Daniel 7<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><strong>Jesus&#8217; claim in Mark 2 and in Matthew 9 to be authorized to forgive sins<\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">the accusation of blasphemy lobbed at Jesus in Mark 14:61-64.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">the &#8220;worship&#8221; of Jesus in Matthew 2 and elsewhere<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">how Revelation 1 describes the exalted Jesus in similar terms to the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">the title &#8220;Alpha and Omega&#8221; which is used in Revelation for both God and Jesus<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">whether John 15:3 implies that it must have been <em>God <\/em>who died for our sins<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">whether Romans 10:9 shows that in Paul&#8217;s view Jesus is Yahweh<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">whether being begotten by God implies being God, and the charge in John 10 that Jesus is &#8220;making himself God&#8221;<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">John 17:5 and the issue of Jesus&#8217;s pre-human existence in the New Testament<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><strong>whether John 12:41 implies that Jesus is Yahweh<\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">John 1 and the deity of Christ<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">that the Hebrew <em>echad <\/em>can refer to non-simple, complex unities<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignleft size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/modern-Cerberus.jpeg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44538\" style=\"width:407px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/modern-Cerberus.jpeg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/modern-Cerberus-450x450.jpeg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/modern-Cerberus-150x150.jpeg 150w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/modern-Cerberus-768x768.jpeg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There is also a question about and some more discussion of <strong>Dr. Craig&#8217;s controversial claim<\/strong> that it is an anachronism to suppose that New Testament authors could make claims involving the concept of numerical identity. I point out that <strong>any normal adult<\/strong>, then or now, can wonder, after twice referring, if they&#8217;ve referred to the same thing twice or rather to two things in succession. I also point out that <strong>the anti-modalist plank of trinitarian confessions<\/strong>, even ancient ones, employs the concept of <em>same-thing-as<\/em> when it denies that any &#8220;Person&#8221; of the Trinity is numerically the same with any of the others (i.e. that all of these are false: f = s, s = h, h = f). <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For his part, Dr. Craig asks me if I accept a Socinian account of atonement, and you&#8217;ll also hear <strong>the humorous end of this panel session<\/strong>, as the editor Dr. McIntosh hands out clever gifts to each of the four authors. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the final segment <strong>I critique some answers Dr. Craig has recently given<\/strong> on his podcast to some listener questions about the Bible and &#8220;the Trinity,&#8221; also offering my own answers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-373-book-session-identity-crisis-part-2\/\">podcast 373 \u2013 Book Session Identity Crisis \u2013 Part 2<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-372-book-session-identity-crisis-part-1\/\">podcast 372 \u2013 Book Session Identity Crisis \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.reasonablefaith.org\/media\/reasonable-faith-podcast\/questions-on-morality-the-trinity-and-retirement\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Reasonable Faith Podcast:  Questions on Morality, the Trinity, and Retirement, December 11, 2023 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>Reasonable Faith Podcast:  Questions on Morality, the Trinity, and Retirement, December 11, 2023<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">1 Chronicles 20:29; Philippians 2:9-11; Romans 5; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; Mark 12:28-34; Deuteronomy 6:4; Deuteronomy 4:35; John 14:28; John 1:18; John 20:28; John 20:17; John 10:31-36; John 20:30-31; John 14:9; Acts 17:11.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Identity (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Identity<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/how-much-did-aristotle-understand-about-numerical-sameness-identity\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"How much did Aristotle understand about numerical sameness (identity)? (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>How much did Aristotle understand about numerical sameness (identity)?<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Atonement-Death-Christ-Philosophical-Exploration\/dp\/1481312049\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Craig, Atonement and the Death of Christ (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Craig, <em>Atonement and the Death of Christ<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-teaches-that-david-is-god\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"fulfillment fallacy: the Bible teaches that David is God (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">fulfillment fallacy: the Bible teaches that David is God<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/the-bible-on-another-previous-life-of-jesus\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"fulfillment fallacy: the Bible on another previous life of Jesus (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">fulfillment fallacy: the Bible on another previous life of Jesus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/jesuss-argument-in-john-10\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Jesus\u2019s argument in John 10 (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Jesus\u2019s argument in John 10<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-235-the-case-against-preexistence\/\">podcast 235 \u2013 The Case Against Preexistence<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-338-what-john-1-meant\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 338 \u2013 What John 1 Meant (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 338 \u2013 What John 1 Meant<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-334-who-do-you-say-i-am\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 334 \u2013 \u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 334 \u2013 \u201cWho do you say I am?\u201d<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-70-the-one-god-and-his-son-according-to-john\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 70 \u2013 The one God and his Son according to John (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">podcast 70 \u2013 The one God and his Son according to John<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The biblical Jesus is not fully divine\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/GJCZervdJEk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-146-jesus-exemplar-faith-new-testament\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"podcast 146 \u2013 Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 146 \u2013 Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-92-dr-joshua-thurow-on-objections-to-atonement-theories\/\">podcast 92 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on objections to atonement theories<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-91-dr-joshua-thurow-on-theories-of-the-atonement\/\">podcast 91 \u2013 Dr. Joshua Thurow on theories of the atonement<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a aria-label=\"podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation (opens in a new tab)\" href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-189-the-unfinished-business-of-the-reformation\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\"><strong>podcast 189 \u2013 The unfinished business of the Reformation<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week&#8217;s thinking music is &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/fever-dreams-1\/run-hard\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Run Hard (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Run Hard<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/\" target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Mr. Smith (opens in a new tab)\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" class=\"ek-link\">Mr. Smith<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Q &#038; A time, forgiving sins, Cerberus, and some answers critiqued. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":44537,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,6,75,99,9,57,43,210,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-44521","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-complaints","category-divine-attributes","category-listener-questions","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-unitarianism","category-william-lane-craig","category-worship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44521","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=44521"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44521\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44545,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44521\/revisions\/44545"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/44537"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=44521"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=44521"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=44521"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}