{"id":44779,"date":"2024-12-14T22:06:27","date_gmt":"2024-12-15T04:06:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=44779"},"modified":"2024-12-14T22:06:30","modified_gmt":"2024-12-15T04:06:30","slug":"podcast-383-new-zealand-conference-church-history-q-and-a-with-sean-finnegan-and-dale-tuggy-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-383-new-zealand-conference-church-history-q-and-a-with-sean-finnegan-and-dale-tuggy-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 383 \u2013 New Zealand Conference Church History Q and A with Sean Finnegan and Dale Tuggy \u2013 Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_8298\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-44779-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities383.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities383.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities383.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities383.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=44779-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities383.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities383.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignright size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"781\" height=\"521\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/black-swans-cr-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44783\" style=\"width:455px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/black-swans-cr-1.jpg 781w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/black-swans-cr-1-450x300.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/black-swans-cr-1-768x512.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 781px) 100vw, 781px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At the start of this episode I have <strong>a <em>very important<\/em> announcement!<\/strong> Then you&#8217;ll hear day 2 &#8211; November 24, 2024 &#8211; of pastor Sean Finnegan and I fielding church history questions for New Zealand conference attendees.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Topics include:<\/strong> the only <em>really <\/em>trinitarian-sounding text in the New Testament (<strong>Matthew 28:19<\/strong>), the formation of the biblical <strong>canon<\/strong>, some ancient books which are not in any current-day Christian canon, books in the Catholic and Orthodox Bible but not in the Protestant ones, why some of these non-Protestant books can be useful for New Testament interpretation, <strong>the influences of Greek philosophy of catholic theologies<\/strong>, whether or not the idea of a tripersonal God is in pre-Christian pagan religions, the conservative nature of so-called fourth-century &#8220;<strong>Arianism<\/strong>&#8221; and where that name comes from, Arianism and Islam, <strong>how it came to be that &#8220;Arian&#8221; Christianity died out<\/strong>, present-day <strong>apologists&#8217; demonstrably false claim that Christians have always been trinitarian<\/strong> and how we can know from the primary sources that this it is false,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Links for this episode:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/B4mBbfn8opw?si=FJ467yU-EEE5Auam\">Videos from the 2024 UK Internation UCA conference in Windsor<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/restitutio.org\/get-podcast\/\">Restitutio podcast<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/restitutio.org\/2018\/04\/25\/is-matthew-28-19-a-forgery\/\"><strong>Sean Finnegan, &#8220;Is Matthew 28.19 a Forgery?&#8221;<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"386\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-1024x386.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44785\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-1024x386.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-450x169.jpg 450w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-768x289.jpg 768w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-1536x578.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Sean-Finnegan-presents-1-2048x771.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.earlychristianwritings.com\/text\/shepherd-lightfoot.html\">The Shepherd of Hermas<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.earlychristianwritings.com\/1clement.html\">1 Clement<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.earlychristianwritings.com\/barnabas.html\">Barnabas<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/ntcanon.org\/Athanasius.shtml\">The 39th Festal Letter of Athanasius\u00a0(367 CE)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/ntcanon.org\/table.shtml\">The Development of the Canon of the New Testament<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblestudytools.com\/dictionary\/apocrypha\/\"><strong>The Apocrypha<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.earlychristianwritings.com\/text\/muratorian-metzger.html\">The Muratorian Fragment<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"alignright size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"298\" height=\"477\" src=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mcintosh-book-cover.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-44732\" style=\"width:268px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mcintosh-book-cover.png 298w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Mcintosh-book-cover-281x450.png 281w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 298px) 100vw, 298px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>McIntosh, ed. <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Three-Persons-Four-Views-Philosophical-ebook\/dp\/B0DLPGZ8HR\/\">One God, Three Persons, Four Views: A Biblical, Theological, and Philosophical Dialogue on the Doctrine of the Trinity<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/evangelicalfocus.com\/culture\/337\/codex-vaticanus-is-now-online\">Codex Vaticanus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.codexsinaiticus.org\/en\/\"><strong>Codex Sinaiaticus<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/translation.bible\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/mikre-sellassie-1993-the-bible-and-its-canon-in-the-ethiopian-orthodox-church.pdf\">a scholarly article on the Ethiopian Canon(s)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Sirach%2024&amp;version=NRSVUE\">Sirach 24<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Wisdom%209&amp;version=NRSVUE\">Wisdom of Solomon 9<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/nb4TogqyTrw?si=-cmPVSC5-biSdLe0\">What John 1 Meant<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/how-john-1-was-intelligible-in-the-first-century\/\">How John 1 was intelligible in the first century<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/podtail.com\/en\/podcast\/the-reluctant-theologian-podcast\/ep-77-classical-theism-and-analytic-theology\/\">Dr. R.T. Mullins on &#8220;classical&#8221; (i.e. too Platonized) theism<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rowan Williams, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Arius-Heresy-Tradition-Rowan-Williams\/dp\/0802849695\/\">Arius: Heresy and Tradition<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dale&#8217;s university lectures on Islam:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"20a Islam: Muhammad the Prophet - statistics, origins, Allah, and Abraham\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/KMkrh46cfo8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-31-william-hasker-on-the-arian-controversy\/\"><strong>podcast 31 \u2013 Dr. William Hasker on the \u201cArian\u201d Controversy<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-30-the-council-of-nicea\/\">podcast 30 \u2013 The Council of Nicea<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-29-arius\/\">podcast 29 \u2013 Arius<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rubenstein, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/When-Jesus-Became-God-Christianity\/dp\/0156013150\/\">When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hanson, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Search-Christian-Doctrine-God-Controversy\/dp\/080103146X\/\">The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God: The Arian Controversy, 318-381<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.britannica.com\/biography\/Clovis-I\">Clovis I<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.worldhistory.org\/Justinian_I\/\">Emperor Justinian I<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Dale Tuggy - Christian theologies in the year 240\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/d9W_KjktIdk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Dale Tuggy - Trinitarian &quot;Fool&#039;s Gold&quot; - Mainstream Christian Theologies - Late 100&#039;s to Early 200&#039;s\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/KxYtTQDo1dA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The Trinity before Nicea - 7 Early Theologians - by Sean Finnegan\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/RmRdZmPIGrA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-175-marcellus-of-ancyra\/\">podcast 175 \u2013 Marcellus of Ancyra<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"nv-iframe-embed\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"2a Hinduism - origins and social structure - India and defining &quot;Hinduism&quot;\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/uk1aqpMlKyI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/plotinus\/\">Plotinus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-5-anglicans-defending-athanasius\/\">podcast 5 \u2013 Anglicans Defending \u201cAthanasius\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius\/\">podcast 4 \u2013 Anglicans vs. \u201cAthanasius\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-3-making-abelard-cry\/\">podcast 3 \u2013 making Abelard cry<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-2-the-athanasian-creed\/\">podcast 2 \u2013 the \u201cAthanasian Creed\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/earlychurch.org.uk\/augustine.php#gsc.tab=0\">Augustine<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-12-the-apostles-creed\/\"><strong>podcast 12 \u2013 the Apostles\u2019 Creed<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week\u2019s thinking music is\u00a0&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/a-new-roar\/red-dirt\/\">Red Dirt<\/a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/mr-smith\/\">Mr. Smith<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Another day, another round of excellent church history questions from conference attendees.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":44783,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,6,75,100,88,4,45,14,98,87,99,101,47,57,77,76,94,95,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-44779","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-complaints","category-divine-attributes","category-dynamic-monarchian","category-eastern-orthodoxy","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-hinduism","category-history","category-jehovahs-witnesses","category-judaism","category-listener-questions","category-modalistic-monarchian","category-papers","category-podcast","category-protestant","category-roman-catholicism","category-socinian","category-uca","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44779","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=44779"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44779\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44795,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44779\/revisions\/44795"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/44783"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=44779"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=44779"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=44779"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}