{"id":4937,"date":"2013-09-09T09:24:12","date_gmt":"2013-09-09T13:24:12","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=4937"},"modified":"2023-01-06T09:45:12","modified_gmt":"2023-01-06T15:45:12","slug":"podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 4 &#8211; Anglicans vs. &#8220;Athanasius&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9581\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-4937-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities004.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities004.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities004.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities004.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=4937-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities004.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities004.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><a href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-medium wp-image-4938\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected-300x188.jpg\" alt=\"rejected\" width=\"300\" height=\"188\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected-300x188.jpg 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected-420x263.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected-90x56.jpg 90w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/rejected.jpg 437w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a>As we&#8217;ve seen, the &#8220;Athanasian Creed&#8221; <em>appears<\/em> to be incoherent, that is, inconsistent with itself.<\/p>\n<p>One response is to creatively interpret it in a way which <em>does<\/em> seem coherent. We will explore this approach in many future episodes.<\/p>\n<p>Another response is to stick with the other catholic creeds, such as the &#8220;Apostles'&#8221; and Nicene creeds, rejecting <strong>the &#8220;Athanasian&#8221; Creed as<\/strong> <strong>unnecessary<\/strong> and unhelpful.<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s what&#8217;s<strong> argued in this episode, by Anglican minister Stephen Nye (1648-1719)<\/strong>. Most of the episode is a reading of most of his 1689 tract, <em>Brief Notes on the Creed of St. Athanasius<\/em>. Nye is a controversialist with a flair for pointed language; be forewarned that you may be <strong>offended<\/strong> by a few things he says here.<\/p>\n<p>In the next episode, we&#8217;ll hear from other Anglicans <strong>defending<\/strong> the &#8220;Athanasian Creed&#8221; against the arguments of Nye and others, and we&#8217;ll see how some of Nye&#8217;s arguments hold up under scrutiny.<\/p>\n<p>You can also <strong>listen t<\/strong><strong>o this episode on<\/strong>\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities podcast @ stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=54067&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #560017;\">Stitcher<\/span><\/a><\/strong>\u00a0or\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities @ itunes\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id690304581?mt=2&amp;uo=4&amp;at=11l5XS\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #560017;\">iTunes<\/span><\/a>\u00a0(please subscribe, rate, and review<\/strong>\u00a0us in either or both \u2013 <strong><a title=\"how to rate us at iTunes and Stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/review\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #560017;\">directions here<\/span><\/a><\/strong>). It is also available on\u00a0<a title=\"trinities podcast youtube playlist\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLMCt15e8gG-g7t7wo9MCq9KSDSsvGNcsm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #560017;\">YouTube <\/span><\/a>(scroll down \u2013 you can\u00a0<a title=\"youtube subscription link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/khanpadawan?sub_confirmation=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #560017;\">subscribe here<\/span><\/a>).<\/p>\n<p><strong>Resources<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Nye&#8217;s <em>Brief Notes<\/em> &#8211; in <a title=\"reprint of The Faith of One God\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/us\/en\/shop\/stephen-nye\/the-faith-of-one-god\/paperback\/product-4074169.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">a collection<\/a> from 1691.<\/strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/stephen-nye\/the-faith-of-one-god\/paperback\/product-4074169.html\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-36049 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/faith-of-the-one-god.jpg\" alt=\"faith of the one god\" width=\"245\" height=\"320\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/faith-of-the-one-god.jpg 245w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/faith-of-the-one-god-230x300.jpg 230w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/faith-of-the-one-god-90x118.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 245px) 100vw, 245px\" \/><\/a><\/li>\n<li>Dixon&#8217;s <strong><a title=\"Nice and Hot Disputes\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0567042219\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>Nice and Hot Disputes<\/em><\/a><\/strong> &#8211; a fairly complete history of the <strong>fascinating London controversy<\/strong> over the Trinity c. 1687-1698 which was touched off by the above, and a couple other controversial writings by Nye and his friends. The book takes a traditional catholic mysterian stance throughout.<\/li>\n<li>Walker&#8217;s <a title=\"Walker, Reason and Religion\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/1780762925\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>Reason and Religion in Late Seventeenth-Century England<\/em><\/a>. A good book, although more interested in issues of religious freedom than in theology.<\/li>\n<li>The relevant part of current Episcopal <strong><em><a title=\"Episcopal Book of Common Prayer\" href=\"http:\/\/www.bcponline.org\/Misc\/histdocs.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Book of Common Prayer<\/a><\/em><\/strong>. The &#8220;Creed&#8221; appears here in the appendix of historical documents. But scroll down to the &#8220;Articles of Religion&#8221; section VIII to see the change discussed in this episode.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As we&#8217;ve seen, the &#8220;Athanasian Creed&#8221; appears to be incoherent, that is, inconsistent with itself. One response is to creatively interpret it in a way which does seem coherent. We will explore this approach in many future episodes. Another response is to stick with the other catholic creeds, such as the &#8220;Apostles&#8217;&#8221; and Nicene creeds,&hellip;&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-4-anglicans-vs-athanasius\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Read More &raquo;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">podcast 4 &#8211; Anglicans vs. &#8220;Athanasius&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4938,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[58,4,14,9,57,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4937","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-creeds","category-heresy-orthodoxy","category-history","category-philosophy","category-podcast","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4937","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4937"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4937\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44085,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4937\/revisions\/44085"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4938"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4937"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4937"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4937"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}