{"id":6701,"date":"2014-11-24T13:17:38","date_gmt":"2014-11-24T18:17:38","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=6701"},"modified":"2019-03-18T16:16:53","modified_gmt":"2019-03-18T20:16:53","slug":"podcast-63-thomas-belsham-and-other-scholars-on-john-858","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/podcast-63-thomas-belsham-and-other-scholars-on-john-858\/","title":{"rendered":"podcast 63 &#8211; Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_9139\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-6701-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities063.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities063.mp3\">http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities063.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities063.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=6701-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/trinities\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities063.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"trinities063.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7FuUF9DZM3zhtN41n6RJ6l\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-6704\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham.png\" alt=\"thomas belsham\" width=\"476\" height=\"338\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham.png 476w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham-300x213.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham-420x298.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham-460x327.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/thomas-belsham-90x64.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 476px) 100vw, 476px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><strong>&#8220;Before Abraham was, I was already, in God&#8217;s plan, the Messiah.&#8221;<\/strong> Is this what Jesus means in John 8:58? This\u00a0interpretation was<a title=\"trinities podcast episode 62 - Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/archives\/6684\"> argued for by Dr. Dustin Smith in episode 62<\/a>. But Dr. Smith is not\u00a0the first to read John 8 in this way.<\/p>\n<p>In<a title=\"trinities podcast episode 063\" href=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/podcast\/trinities%20063%20-%20Thomas%20Belsham%20and%20other%20scholars%20on%20John%208%2058.mp3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><strong> this episode<\/strong><\/a> we hear\u00a0some thoughts on John 8 from F.F. Bruce, Dr. James F. McGrath, and Thomas Belsham (pictured here). Only Belsham agrees with Dr. Smith, but all make helpful points, and Belsham quotes several\u00a0early modern scholars on various sides of the issue, including the great Nathaniel Lardner, who, like Belsham, reads John 8 as Dr. Smith does.<\/p>\n<p>You can also <strong>listen t<\/strong><strong>o this episode<\/strong> (and all others) on\u00a0<strong><a title=\"trinities podcast playlist\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLMCt15e8gG-g7t7wo9MCq9KSDSsvGNcsm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">youtube<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0(scroll down), <strong><a title=\"trinities podcast @ stitcher\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=54067&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">stitcher<\/a><\/strong>, or <strong><a title=\"trinities @ itunes\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/id690304581?mt=2&amp;uo=4&amp;at=11l5XS\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">itunes<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0(please rate us there).\u00a0 If you would like to\u00a0<strong>upload audio feedback<\/strong> for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast,\u00a0<a title=\"upload audio feedback for the trinities podcast here\" href=\"http:\/\/www.mediafire.com\/filedrop\/filedrop_hosted.php?drop=96df5ea43b9b7c6582cb95b8c5a7259d7cd8109e0cd009d4a5ecd099cc7e64fb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">put the audio file here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Links for this episode<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><a title=\"MyPodcastReviews - click here and sign up!\" href=\"http:\/\/mypodcastreviews.com\/?mpr_ref=dale331\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">MyPodcastReviews<\/a><\/strong> is how I can see itunes reviews in the various different itunes stores, which differ by country. Podcasters take note of this very helpful service!<\/li>\n<li>Ben Nasmith&#8217;s blog <strong><a title=\"Ben Nasmith's Cognitive Resonance blog\" href=\"https:\/\/bennasmith.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Cognitive Resonance<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>F.F. Bruce&#8217;s <a title=\"F.F. Bruce, The Gospel of John\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0802808832\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Gospel of John: Introduction, Exposition, and Notes<\/em><\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>James F. McGrath&#8217;s <strong><a title=\"James McGrath blog - Exploring Our Matrix\" href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/exploringourmatrix\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Exploring Our Matrix<\/a><\/strong> blog\n<ul>\n<li>Dr. McGrath&#8217;s book <em><a title=\"John's Apologetic Christology\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/052160947X\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John&#8217;s Apologetic Christology: Legitimation and Development in Johannine Christology<\/a>\u00a0(<a title=\"John's Apologetic Christology\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/B001F0RI4A\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">kindle<\/a>)<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong><a title=\"Thomas Belsham information at Wikipedia\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Thomas_Belsham\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Thomas Belsham<\/a><\/strong>\n<ul>\n<li><strong><em>A Calm Inquiry into the Scripture Doctrine Concerning the Person of Christ<\/em> (<a title=\"Thomas Belsham, A Calm Inquiry into the Scripture Doctrine concerning the Person of Christ\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/us\/en\/shop\/thomas-belsham\/a-calm-inquiry-into-the-scripture-doctrine-concerning-the-person-of-christ\/paperback\/product-4386451.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">paperback<\/a>, <a title=\"Thomas Belsham, A Calm Inquiry into the Scripture Doctrine Concerning the Person of Christ\" href=\"http:\/\/books.google.com\/books\/about\/A_Calm_Inquiry_Into_the_Scripture_Doctri.html?id=8EUFAAAAYAAJ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">pdf<\/a>)<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"The New Testament, in an Improved Version\" href=\"http:\/\/books.google.com\/books?id=ftEUAAAAYAAJ&amp;pg=PR1&amp;dq=The+New+Testament,+in+an+improved+version+1817&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=H3BzVLMMuIexBLi9guAF&amp;ved=0CDIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&amp;q=The%20New%20Testament%2C%20in%20an%20improved%20version%201817&amp;f=false\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The New Testament, in an Improved Version<\/em><\/a> (4th ed., 1817) (And <a title=\"The New Testament, in an Improved Version\" href=\"http:\/\/www.bible-researcher.com\/belsham.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a very polemical historical account<\/a> of it.)<\/li>\n<li><a title=\"works of Thomas Belsham at the Post-Reformation Digital Library\" href=\"http:\/\/www.prdl.org\/author_view.php?a_id=1987\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">works by Thomas Belsham at the Post-Reformation Digital Library<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a title=\"Nathaniel Lardner on the Trinity\" href=\"http:\/\/www.lulu.com\/shop\/nathaniel-lardner\/lardner-on-the-trinity\/paperback\/product-4072119.html?ppn=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Nathaniel Lardner on the Trinity<\/a>\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"Nathaniel Lardner at the Library of Historical Apologetics\" href=\"http:\/\/historicalapologetics.org\/lardner-nathaniel\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">other works by Lardner at the Library of Historical Apologetics<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><a title=\"Dr. Dustin Smith's Dustin Martyr Blog\" href=\"http:\/\/dustinmartyr.wordpress.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dustin Martyr Blog<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;Before Abraham was, I was already, in God&#8217;s plan, the Messiah.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":6704,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,21,16,15,6,33,57,7,43],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6701","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-bible","category-books","category-christology","category-complaints","category-incarnation","category-podcast","category-quotes","category-unitarianism"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6701","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6701"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6701\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":41164,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6701\/revisions\/41164"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6704"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6701"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6701"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6701"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}