{"id":6847,"date":"2015-01-03T03:55:15","date_gmt":"2015-01-03T08:55:15","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/?p=6847"},"modified":"2015-01-01T16:10:13","modified_gmt":"2015-01-01T21:10:13","slug":"a-new-proof-of-gods-existence-with-an-assist-from-dr-bart-ehrman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/a-new-proof-of-gods-existence-with-an-assist-from-dr-bart-ehrman\/","title":{"rendered":"a new proof of God&#8217;s existence, with an assist from Dr. Bart Ehrman?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-6854\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof.png\" alt=\"Proof\" width=\"550\" height=\"190\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof.png 550w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof-300x104.png 300w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof-420x145.png 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof-460x159.png 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Proof-90x31.png 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 550px) 100vw, 550px\" \/>In the last week of my recent Introduction to Philosophy class, two teams of students <strong>debated the existence of God<\/strong> in front of the class. After the debate the rest of the students wrote a short response to the debate. While the pro-God side had offered versions of the design and ontological arguments, one student opined in his written response that they had\u00a0<strong>overlooked the obvious<\/strong>. Here is what he wrote:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>God (Jesus) is real, there is documented history of him. I don\u2019t know how someone could deny documented reads.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This suggests the following <strong>argument for God&#8217;s existence<\/strong>, an argument which has not heretofore been discussed by philosophers of religion:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Jesus has existed.<\/li>\n<li>God and Jesus are numerically one.<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, God has existed.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0062206443\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-6850 size-medium\" src=\"http:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-195x300.jpg\" alt=\"Bart Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist\" width=\"195\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-195x300.jpg 195w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-667x1024.jpg 667w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-420x645.jpg 420w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-460x706.jpg 460w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist-90x138.jpg 90w, https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/Bart-Ehrman-Did-Jesus-Exist.jpg 1807w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 195px) 100vw, 195px\" \/><\/a><strong>Justification for 1<\/strong>: all the evidence we have for believing that Jesus is not a fictional character, but was a real, first-century Jew who put on his sandals one at a time. (This evidence is aptly <a title=\"Bart Ehrman editorial on the existence of Jesus\" href=\"http:\/\/www.huffingtonpost.com\/bart-d-ehrman\/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html\" target=\"_blank\">marshaled by <strong>Dr. Bart Ehrman<\/strong><\/a><strong> (<a title=\"Did Jesus Exist?\" href=\"http:\/\/astore.amazon.com\/trinities-20\/detail\/0062206443\" target=\"_blank\">book<\/a>)<\/strong> against the &#8220;mythicist&#8221; conspiracy theorists.)\n<ul>\n<li>Or if it just burns your toast to agree with and rely on Dr. Ehrman, how about <strong>Dr. Craig Keener<\/strong> instead, <a title=\"Keener on historical knowledge of Jesus\" href=\"http:\/\/www.craigkeener.com\/josephus-about-jesus\/\" target=\"_blank\">who says <\/a>&#8220;suffice it to say that unless critics invent special standards for Jesus that we do not apply to the rest of ancient history, we know quite a lot about him.&#8221;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>Justification for 2<\/strong>: the Bible, understood <a title=\"David Wood interviews Rob Bowman\" href=\"http:\/\/youtu.be\/gJnj_TWGSGY\" target=\"_blank\">as many present-day American evangelicals read it<\/a>. The idea is that the Bible obviously and repeatedly implies that Jesus is none other than God himself. He&#8217;s called &#8220;God,&#8221; does and says what only God can do, fulfills prophecies about God, etc.<\/li>\n<li>Clearly, 3 follows from 1 and 2, so the argument is formally <strong><a title=\"the term &quot;valid&quot; explained by a philosopher\" href=\"http:\/\/www.jimpryor.net\/teaching\/vocab\/validity.html\" target=\"_blank\">valid<\/a><\/strong>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Now, the argument would at best\u00a0prove that God <strong><em>has<\/em> existed<\/strong> -not that he exists now or eternally (at all times, or timelessly). But still, this would show the falsity of naturalism, <em>and<\/em> that conclusion is consistent with the present or eternal existence of God, <em>and<\/em> we might view this as a first step. (The second step would be: if God existed then, then he must also exist now, or if you like, eternally.)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Question: is this a compelling argument?<\/strong>\u00a0Has my student stumbled upon a cogent argument for God&#8217;s existence? Why or why not?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the last week of my recent Introduction to Philosophy class, two teams of students debated the existence of God in front of the class. After the debate the rest of the students wrote a short response to the debate. While the pro-God side had offered versions of the design and ontological arguments, one student&hellip;&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/a-new-proof-of-gods-existence-with-an-assist-from-dr-bart-ehrman\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Read More &raquo;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">a new proof of God&#8217;s existence, with an assist from Dr. Bart Ehrman?<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":6854,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[37,15,54,44,33,9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6847","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apologetics","category-christology","category-debates","category-humor","category-incarnation","category-philosophy"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6847","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6847"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6847\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":10410,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6847\/revisions\/10410"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6854"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6847"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6847"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/trinities.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6847"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}