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What if the recipe for answering this question supplied by Dr. Bogardus and Ms. Urban last time is correct? Applying their method, what answer to we arrive at? In this episode Dr. Bogardus, Ms. Urban, and I venture beyond the methodology given in their paper, to consider some other relevant facts. Among them,
- What about converts from one to the other, who insist that they have not switched gods, although they have changed their theology?
- What about someone with a pet theory about, say, divine providence, who just insists that this is a sine qua non (without which not) condition of referring to God, so that people who don’t agree with that theory literally can’t refer to God?
- What about the early Christian reaction to Islam, for example in John of Damascus, which assumed co-reference, treating Islamic teaching as a variety of heresy? This clearly presupposes that Christians and Muslims are talking about the same god. Is this relevant to our answer today?
- What about present-day Christians who still use “Allah” for the Christian God?
- What about present-day Jews? Aren’t they talking about the same god Christians are talking about?
- What about the fact, if it is a fact, that when traditions feel threatened, they want to deny that the other guys are talking about their god, whereas when they feel confident, they want to affirm co-reference?
- About our question, some traditions take a strong position. It seems part of standard Islamic teaching that “Allah” refers to Yahweh, the God of the Jews and the Christians.
And since Vatican II, the Catholic Church, arguably, has committed to co-reference. In a 1965 statement, Pope Paul VI said,
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.
Towards the end, Dr. Bogardus points out that the reference question is one thing and the worship question is another. I think that this is an important point to keep in mind, and I’ve blogged about it before.
One additional thought I had post-conversation: Is it really true that a Catholic philosopher like Dr. Bogardus agrees with everything that Abraham would say about God? I think it may depend on what sort of Trinity theory the former is committed to. Abraham thought of God as a “he,” as a mighty self. So do some trinitarians – what I call “one-self trinitarians.” But others, what I call “three-self trinitarians” and “negative mysterians” disagree. One might also wonder whether Abraham would have believed it impossible for God to be a man (as opposed to appearing in a theophany in human-like form).
Thanks to Dr. Bogardus and Ms. Urban for the good conversations and for their helpful, carefully-argued paper.
Links for this episode:
- Tomas Bogardus’s home page
- podcast 185 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 1
- podcast 120 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 1
- podcast 121 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 2
- Pope Paul VI
- Nostra Aetate – a 1965 papal “Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions”
- podcast 93 – review of Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus – Part 1
- podcast 94 – review of Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus – Part 2
- Special Issue of the Evangelical Missiological Society‘s “Occasional Bulletin”: Wheaton and the Controversy Over Whether Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God
- John of Damascus
- Acts 17:16-34, Matthew 25:31-46.
- Is Allah God? Goofus and Gallant, Grok and Sophie
- This week’s thinking music is “Made of Metal” by Artofescapism.
Mohamed;
Terms like El Eloah, Elohim, can apply to others. YHWH is the only personal name of God. “Allah” do believe falls into the category of El or Eloah. That’s why the Bible sometimes refer to God as, YHWH Eloah or YHWH El.
Dokimazo,
I do agree that *originally if we look at the etymology of “Allah” it is more general in usage (as in the case of “Eloah, Elah, Elohim, El etc.) however, Muhammad changed everything when he came on the scene with Islam and filled the word “Allah” with new meaning which it previously did not have. That is why it can be very confusing for Christians and Muslims to dialogue about whether or not they worship the same God, because sometimes they can use the same words with different meanings, different words with the same meanings, and so forth. In other words, I do believe that Mohmed is correct because Muslims do view “Allah” as a proper name (although originally it seemed to be the general Arabic equivalent to “Elohim” used by Arabic speaking Jews, Christians, and even polytheists).
Thanks for your reply. Makes sense, for that is what nominal Christianity really did with the title god. But this really added no clarity on who God is. Matter fact it has obscured the issue. YHWH really is the only personal name of the one true God, all others appear to be titles. Now in the case of Allah, if I am not mistaken, means mighty one. It to being a title that over the years has kind of taken on a Nomina Sacra through usage in the Muslim community. Again clarity in some ways has been obscured.
As a layman Muslim, I believe the boundary regarding this question is more cultural than religious. Dr. Bogardus has mentioned that “Allah” is a generic name for the Almighy God in Arabic, which is false. “Allah” is a personal name, just as YHWH, for the God of Abraham among Arab pagans (formerly), Arab-speaking Jews, Christians, and Muslims. An Arab Christian would accept that the God of the Quran is the same “person” as the God of the Bible regardless of difference in concept, this might not be true for a Christian from an European background.
Pagans, Jews and Christians who interacted with Muhammed understood fully that he was referring to the God of Abraham. This could be the reason why “Abrahamic monotheism” is a overarching narrative in the Quran. If this idea was delivered to a Greek-speaking or Latin-speaking Christian, I believe their reaction would be similar.
The old testament itself uses interchangeable names for God, who was called “El” or “Elohim” before Moses and “Yahweh” after, with no one asking “Are they speaking about the same entity?”. Similarly in the new testament “God the Father” is clearly indistinguishable from YHWH, with caveats. Why should “Allah” be any different?
PS. Dr. Tuggy made a dismissing comment regarding the “Gospel” of the Islamic Jesus. In the Quran, “book” or “scripture” does not necessarily mean ink on paper, but rather a coherent text. Jesus and Paul refer to gospels they preach and order to preach, which is not material, but a set of orally delivered doctrines and teachings.
With gratitude.
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