podcast 299 – Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? – with Dale Glover – Part 1

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Spotify | Email | RSS

In this episode, the first half of my conversation/debate with Canadian evangelical apologist Dale Glover, about whether or not the New Testament teaches “Trinity Monotheism.” (This is a three-self Trinity theory on which the Persons are proper parts of the triune God.)

First, Dale asks me which Trinity theory I would accept if I were convinced that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three personal, divine beings. Then, he argues that belief in “multiplicity in the Godhead” is essential to being saved, and I reply with what I understand to be the required beliefs according to the New Testament. I then present a summary case of why I think the New Testament writers think that the one God just is the Father, and not the Trinity. My case focuses on four indisuputable facts about the New Testament

1. In the New Testament, the word “God” nearly always refers to the Father, while no word there refers to the Trinity.
2. All four gospels feature a “mere man” compatible main thesis.
3. The NT writings without embarrassment or explanation present Jesus as both limited and dependent on God. 
4. In the New Testament only the Father and the man Jesus are worshiped.

I argue that these confirm the thesis that these authors think the one God is the Father over the thesis that they think the one God is the Trinity. (A longer and more technical version of this sort of argument is in podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation.)

Dale Glover formulates his case that Trinity Monotheism is supported by the Bible as follows:

1. There is only one (“echad” not “yachid”) God. 
2. In the Bible God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are distinct individuals/persons (standing in interpersonal “I-THOU” relations to each other).
3. According to the Bible, anything which has one or more of the Yahweh-identifying features is, minimally, a proper, distinctive, and essential part of God/Yahweh. 
4. God the Father, Jesus & the Holy Spirit have ONE OR MORE of the Yahweh-identifying features.
5. The Trinity Monotheism model entails that God the Father, Jesus and the H.S. are distinct individual persons subsisting within one God named Yahweh proper (i.e. one thing/Being/immaterial or spiritual soul) – a model that is at least consistent with the biblical data.
6.  Therefore, there are three distinct individuals/persons named God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit who are (minimally) proper, distinctive and essential parts of the one God/Yahweh (i.e. Trinity Monotheism model affirmed in Jewish language as opposed to Greek philosophical terminology of the later Creeds). This is consistent with the Biblical Data.

Do you find Mr. Glover’s argument convincing? Why, or why not?

What about the evidence that I offer in favor of the New Testament authors being unitarian? Do you find that evidence compelling? Why or why not?

Next week, our discussion of our clashing cases.

Links for this episode:

• Real Seeker Ministries (this discussion)
• podcast 297 – Assessing Craig’s “Trinity Monotheism” – with Dale Glover – Part 2
• podcast 296 – Assessing Craig’s “Trinity Monotheism” – with Dale Glover – Part 1
• podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Views
• podcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”
• Daniel Spencer, “Social Trinitarianism and the tripartite God”
• podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
• podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
• podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
• podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian
• podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
• podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
• podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?
• evangelical apologists take note: Hurtado on Jesus and God
• fulfillment fallacy posts: the Bible teaches that David is God, the Bible on another previous life of Jesus
• podcast 85 – Heretic! Four Approaches to Dropping H-Bombs
• Jesus’s argument in John 10
• the concept of a triune God an anachronism in the first three centuries
• podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
• Tuggy vs. Date: the book is better
• podcast 13 – On Bauckham’s Bargain
• podcast 214 – Has Bauckham clarified his “divine identity” theory? – Part 2
• podcast 213 – Has Bauckham clarified his “divine identity” theory? – Part 1
• podcast 291 – From one God to two gods to three “Gods” – John 1 and early Christian theologies
• a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
• podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
• Romans 10:9-13; Joel 2:32; Joel 3:5; John 8:24; John 4:25-26; John 20 thesis; Isaiah immanuel and Mt; John 9 I am he; Mark I am he; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Philippians 2:11; Revelation 4; Revelation 5; Romans 1:25; John 17:1-3; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; John 8:54; Acts 2:25; Acts 3:36; John 20:17; 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; John 10:34; Psalm 82:6-7:; Hebrews 1:8-9; Psalm 45:6-7; John 20:31; Mark 8:29; Ephesians 4:4-6; John 1:1; Deuteronomy 6:4; Philippians 2:5-11; Isaiah 45:5; 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1; Ephesians 2:19-22; Ezekiel 37:27; Isaiah 52:11; Galatians 4:3-11; 2 Corinthians 3:7-18; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 1:17; Ephesians 3:13; 1 Peter 1:3; Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:1.
• This week’s thinking music is “Number 0” by Jesse Spillane