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The way to evaluate a debate is to actively chart and compare the arguments made by each side. Debaters call this “flowing” a debate.
I sat down and did this, working carefully all the way through my recent debate with James White on the question “Is Jesus Yahweh?”
In this episode I’ll give you my evaluation of the debate, with an assist from the cutting edge Chat Debate Beta AI. She and I even go so far as to declare a winner!
Do you agree? Why or why not? How would you have argued one side or the other differently
I’ve been interviewed several times about the debate; see the videos below.
Links for this episode:
the fully produced video of the debate
Who Should Christians Worship?
Restitutio 451 Wisdom Christology in Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) July 8, 2022
Restitutio 450 Seven Interpretive Options for Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) June 30, 2022
Restitutio 449 Intertextuality and Interpretation of Hebrews 1 (Jerry Wierwille) June 23, 2022
This week’s thinking music is “Dit it and Quit It” by Van Loon.
Here are links to the studies of Hebrews 1:10 that I mentioned as very impressive. I think Dr. White, or anyone else, will be hard-pressed to dismiss this approach, even though nearly all translations have chosen contrary.
Hebrews 1:10 (4 minute video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JZrpIdWFXU
Hebrews 1:10 (22 minute video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxyz8z1TO4
Hebrews 1:10 (40 minute video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aDlN2pKv3Y
READ ONLY: https://thetrinityontrial.com/2022/05/31/is-christ-the-creator-in-hebrews-1-10/
The verse quoted above, 1 Chron 29:10, should have been 1 Chronicles 29:20.
Dale,
I think Dr. White considers “the Lord of Glory” as Warfield did. It is the eternal, preincarnate, supreme glory of Deity that is in his mind. He does not comprehend that the New Testament sees the glory of Jesus as prospective, even though foreordained by God (John 17:5). To Dr. White it is not the Son of man being exalted to the right hand of the Almighty in Dan 7:13 after his victorious death and resurrection, but God just returning to resume the eternal glory he had always had after temporarily laying it aside. In Revelation 4 and 5, I would suggest going beyond the different reasons the Almighty and Jesus are worshiped (which are crucial) to also pointing out that the Lamb is not even in the scene in Revelation 4! It is the One who sits on the throne by himself who created ALL things, and by whose will they exist that is worshiped alone. Here is the Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty! But the next verse is not “Blessed Trinity.” Now comes chapter 5 when the Lamb who has been slain (died) comes forward — alone worthy to take the scroll. He is honored for redeeming men onto God and seated at the right of the Father where, just as in 1 Chron 29:10 (?), they are worshiped together as Yahweh and the king. Dale, I believe you solidly won the debate because you went beyond the weak response of trying to explain Hebrews 1:10 as reference to Jesus creating the new creation. I would suggest the explanations of “The Trinity Delusion” and “The Trinity on Trial” sites to further support your approach to Heb 1:10. Had you taken the approach that Anthony Buzzard took against James White and Michael Brown years ago, Dr. White would have slapped you down solidly. But he was visibly taken aback by your approach — which is cleary biblical on reasonable examination, even if essentially every translation muddles up the whole structure of Hebrews 1 due to the errant presupposition that Jesus is being called the Genesis creator in verse 10. Bravo. Although Dr. White took his usual tough stance, you put him off balance enough to even blunt his persona of infallibility, which usually carries him through if he can at least make a few solid arguments.
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