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podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words

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Did you know that in the field of Christian theology, the following terms are ambiguous, with different sources using them to refer to different (purported) realities?

  • “God”
  • “Father”
  • “Trinity”
  • “God the Son”
  • “the Son of God”
  • “Jesus”
  • “Messiah”
  • “Yahweh”

In this episode, I explain these different meanings, and describe three responses to these ambiguities: correlate, eliminate, and obfuscate.

Because my illustrations make some points clearer, I recommend this screencast version of this episode:

Or, you can view the video of the talk by Sharon Gill:

Links for this episode:

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4 thoughts on “podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words”

  1. What a confusing mess! I believe all of this confusion is the result of early church fathers who were saturated with Greek metaphysics, which became the grid through which they did theology. They made a conscious, deliberate decision to reject the unitarian concept of God found in the Hebrew Scriptures, as well as the polytheistic concept of pagan religion. They developed a concept of God in the middle, between the unitarian monotheism of the OT and the polytheism of Greek and Roman paganism. And so this has been the prevailing concept of God within Christianity ever since. May the Lord God use your podcast, as well as other’s, and the many blogs out there to draw many back to the God of Scripture, the unitary God of Israel and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus.

    1. In a sense, I don’t disagree with this – but the Hellenism came in way before the idea of a multipersonal god did. We see a shocking degree of Platonism in Justin Martyr, but no idea of a tripersonal god appears until after Basil of Caesarea, as best I can tell! So, 370s. The first victim of Hellenized theology, in my view, was the truly human Jesus. After late 2nd c. this was pilloried as a “mere man” view. In the place of a human Messiah, most of them put either a divine being puppeting a body, or a man mysteriously united to the Logos (Origen).

    2. God is a Spirit, a Holy Spirit, one person and known by many names.
      The word (a) is singular.

      God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24

      For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
      Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips. Job 13:6
      Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Job 13:7
      Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God? Job 13:8
      Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him? Job 13:9
      He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons. Job 13:10

      Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. John 14:8
      Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

      I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
      Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. John 8:25
      I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. John 8:26
      They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. John 8:27

      It was God the Father who was manifested in the flesh and while in the flesh he was required to pray; but since the person who is the Son of God is also the Father, when he prayed as the Son of God his prayer returned to his own bosom because God is one person.

      Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1 John 3:1
      Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2
      And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:3
      Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4
      And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 John 3:5
      And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
      O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Psalms 65:2
      But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. Psalms 35:13
      For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

      Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8
      For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9
      And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:10
      That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Timothy 6:14
      Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15
      Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16

      Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Isaiah 45:21
      Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:22
      I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isaiah 45:23
      That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; Philippians 2:10
      In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
      For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Malachi 3:6

      Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4
      And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28
      Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29
      But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
      Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44
      Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:46
      Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:48
      The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

      1. You know that 1 John 5:7 isn’t a Bible verse right? None of the other passages you quoted support your statements whatsoever. The Bible does not say that Jesus and the Father are the same person. It makes mince meat of the narrative of the gospels to read them while simultaneously denying that Jesus and the Father are two separate persons. Jesus did not pray to himself…. Whatever on earth could compel you to approach the narrative with such twisted notions? That must be some powerful commitment to override your basic sense of reasonable reading comprehension. I recommend that you weigh your motive against the compulsion of the text itself, which clearly says that Jesus was a man, the Messiah, who was filled with God’s Spirit. Just as he breathed on his disciples and offered the same filling to them.

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